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Please Hold For The Next Available (Insert Nationality Here) Representative
from the making-customer-support-even-slower dept
There are some people who just don't like the idea that when they call up a company they might be talking to someone in India. For them, The Senate Commerce Committee is considering a bill that would require foreign call center workers to disclose that they are in a different country. It's not clear why this is necessary or what such a rule would accomplish. Outsourcing call centers isn't illegal, and it shouldn't be the position of the government to try to shame companies that do it. Most likely, the bill's supporters will claim that consumers have a "right to know", though no such right exists. While some have complained about language problems with the foreign staff, this problem will take care of itself, as companies won't keep using call centers that mess up transactions. In fact, some companies have already stopped outsourcing. One company offers customers a choice, allowing callers to speak to a US call center in exchange for slower service. This kind of bill should be identified what for it is, a transparent protectionist scheme. Perhaps, though, it will appeal to people who verbally abuse call center workers, since nationality can't always be determined from accent alone.
Reader Comments
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Two recent episodes
Just the other night I called Discover Card and was "Forwarded to our call center in Arizona". It struck me as odd.
Just several weeks ago I called Dell Financial Service. Have you ever tried to get in touch with Dell Financial Service? It goes like this:
Look at your bill and ask yourself why you're getting charged for a something that you've paid off. Call the 1800 Number. Select appropriate #. Get the following message:
"Our hours are from 9am to 8pm central time monday through friday. Please call back between our regular business hours. If you called during regular business hours please leave a message.....Connecting to voice mail.......I'm sorry, that voice mailbox is full".
Next option is to go online - find the 1800 number to call for this *special case* - it's the same fricken number!
Customer service is a rarity in the US. But my tolerence has been broken - I am now aggressively getting rid of services (phone, cable, banks, credit, etc) that don't have accessible friendly customer service, and those with hidden charges and those who make you buy X in order to purchase Z.
-CF
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Bypass Holding Hack
A few months ago I had to deal with my companies technical support. I called the toll free number provided and accidentally hit the wrong button. Instead of pressing #1 for english (and undoubtedly being put on hold for a half hour), I had accidentally hit #2 for spanish. I was immediately connected to our technical support center in Texas and was greeted by a friendly representative in spanish. I asked if they spoke english and sure enough they did. :)
I bypassed a long wait and having dealing with someone who's accent is almost unbearable.
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If Only the Scammers Would Identify Themselves
I wish the "Domain Registry Support" scammers that are calling from India or Bangladesh or wherever they're calling from would identify themselves as scammers before trying to scam my fax number. Can congress take care of that?
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[strong Indian accent] Milt's going to rip your balls off. I'm going to get Milt!"
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Outsourcing is bad for America.
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WTF
Half the domestic call centers in the USA are manned by Americans who have no grip on the English language anyway, and have horrible attitudes.
Lets face it, these arent exactly the cream of the crop academically speaking. These are typically low wage workers who could give a fuck if you need help with [insert product here].
Generally the exceptions to this rule are banks (Bank of America is fantastic IMHO), and IT support calls, where you typically get a nice, polite, totally incomprehensible Indian who drives you crazy.
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Sounds good to me
Businesses lied to consumers in the first place by surrepititiously patching their calls overseas. Indians deserve to be abused by free market forces, not just take advantage of it. The onus is on them to prove they have anything productive to offer, asides from bad English and bad attitudes.
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When local call centers are important ...
I found that if you are calling to cancel an account and get routed to an overseas call center, the overseas call center will immediately transfer you to a call center here in the U.S. where the native English speakers will use all the language skills at their disposal to talk you out of canceling.
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If they (DELL) wont let us export their computers out of the USA/CANADA, then how the heck are they able to support their (DELL) computers from India? ... if they are not even suppose to have them outside of the USA/CANADA?
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Re: Dell Tech Support
The tech support people in India don't have PCs. The work from scripts in binders.
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Re: Re: Dell Tech Support
Listen idiot, go over there and look at the offices before you make a comment like that. Hyderabad is the only non-US Microsoft campus, and the equivalent of Silicon Valley in that country. I think they have computers.
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Re:
What do you mean ?Yyou can order Dell computers and have them shipped to almost any country in the world.
I have seen Dell computers in the far east. (China, Taiwan) and all over Europe.
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Most Indians that know speak better english than most Americans. The corps can do whatever the hell they want with their money. If you don't like it, take your business elsewhere.
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Most Americans don’t know where to use “you’re” or “your.” Or for that matter where to use “accept” or “except.” For all intents and purposes, Indians have a better grasp over English than 90% of Americans. Agreed, accent only goes away if you are a native speaker.
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Re:
"Most Americans don’t know where to use “you’re” or “your.” Or for that matter where to use “accept” or “except.” For all intents and purposes, Indians have a better grasp over English than 90% of Americans. Agreed, accent only goes away if you are a native speaker."
Dear Mr. OCD, this topic is relating to CALL-CENTERS and not TYPING-CENTERS. WTF are you ranting on about???
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Most Americans don’t know where to use “you’re” or “your.” Or for that matter where to use “accept” or “except.” For all intents and purposes, Indians have a better grasp over English than 90% of Americans. Agreed, accent only goes away if you are a native speaker.
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I was talking about the grasp over the language, egghead!
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sorry, quoted the wrong OCD'er
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I bet their English is better than your Indian, Dorpus.
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Does it make a difference
Does it really make a difference? If your computer breaks and you call customer service, and the person that picks up the phone says, "Hello, my name is David, and I'm calling from India. How can I help you?" Are you really going to hang up? Personally I know I'd be more concerned with getting my computer up and running, then with where the support staff is located.
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Re: Does it make a difference
Um, yeah, It does make a difference where the support is coming from. Maybe not to you, but to the poor guy trying his hardest to find a help desk job here in the US, it does make a difference. Outsourcing hurts everyone, period. I just got layed off from a large corporation that outsourced it's manufacturing to Mexico (Thanks G.W. Bush!), and replaced all the American workers that where making 8.00 per hour with people lining up to make 7.00 per day! I know this is off an a different tangent than the topic, but think of it this way: This large corporation outsourced it's call center to India, then layed off a grip of Americans....outsourced it's payroll to India, then layed off a grip of Americans....Outsourced it's manufacturing to Mexico, then layed off a grip of Americans....You see where I'm going with this yet? Hmmm very soon, NO JOBS here in AMERICA!
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Excellent use of neo-Liberal apologies for outsour
This comment is absolutely ridiculous in the sense that it proclaims that no such consumer right exists which would justify this specific provision. Consumer rights are not inscribed in stone somewhere, established for all time. The Bill's ratification into legislation would essentially be introducing a new right with respect to the transactions and interactions conducted between services and consumers, and the assurances that the consumer can except when engaged in these social practices. Therefore, I fail to see the logic, if any exists, behind this argument. Furthermore, this reliance upon the deity of the Invisible-hand to correct any problems with regards to outsourcing and its effect upon worker and consumers is nothing more than the same dribble we have been exposed to prior to the passing of NAFTA, CAFTA, and all the other promotions of multinational corporate profit-maximization interests, which have had an adverse consequence, not only for this country, but the developing counrties tied to these agreements, as well. This babble is quite unusual for TechDirt, and I would have to recommend that this type of reasoning is brought to a cessation before it becomes habitual.
Russell Cole
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Financial and Medical
Go ahead send all the financial and medical records and any other information any where in the world. Just because you have rights to privacy in one country doesn't mean another country's companies have to obey them.
I am always amazed that people worry about jobs going overseas but dont blink twice about information that could ruin your lives hitting the high seas
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its inevitable dudes so get used to it...
More ppl speak indian english than so called american or any other english. So lets better get used to it or suffer cause the call centers are going to india anyways...
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Next Next Available (Canadian eh?) Representative
Come on!! 78% of ALL tech support calls are outsourced.
Just because someone has an accent does that mean that they're not in the US?
Granted, it does take away jobs locally/country-wide, but the only ones who complain are those who have had bad calls.
Since I do Tier 2 (National Help Desk) for TimeWarner RoadRunner, I can say "I'm proud to be Canadian." There is only 1 (one) NHD for Tier 2 in Kentucky. Most calls either go to Ottawa or Kamloops (me).
Only 2 times in 3 years as an agent have I had anyone in the US complain about outsourced Tech Support, and that Texan sounded like Boomhauer from "King of the Hill," and the other one from Jackson sounded as though they were speaking through their nose. They POLITELY requested someone in the US, and made and off-hand comment about outsourcing.
Did I care? No. Did it bother me? No. 'Cause most people DON'T judge others by their skin colour or langauge or country of origin.
Yes, Dell, HP, Microsoft, Linksys(Cisco) and alot of US-based based companies outsource Tech Support to other countries. Why? Cause its cheaper. It's all about the Almighty greenback.
And to those who have had and enjoyed RoadRunner NHD support, I appreciate all your kind comments about us Canucks and OUR Tech Support.
BTW - I've got an average of over 97% for customer satisfaction in the last three years. That just means the other 3% didn't agree with me that when the PC doesn't boot up, it's all RoadRunner's fault.
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..well arent you special, mrs.97%
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Re: Special
See? My point exactly.
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I'd rather speak with Rajnish in Bangalore than Shaniqua in Memphis.
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OMG!
Rotf!! You and me both
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Location can make a difference.
Once word gets out about the location of tech centers, I suspect that most Americans would rather do business with companies that have "domestic" call centers. Even if the foreign ones do read from the same scripts.
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I think it's sad that supporting your own economy
.... transparent protectionism, as if it's a bad thing. I honestly can't beleive that anyone felt they needed to speak out against this.
Everytime I call a support center and get someone whose English is poor and choppy telling me their name is "Michelle" or "RObert" when they are clearly working from India, I feel cheated. Let us not forget that these things are only outsourced so that American companies can pay pennies to the dollar for the service - not so that the service will be better.
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RE: Location
Switch to a MAC, call Apple for Tech support.
And most of us Techies tell where we are, or we say "north of Seattle."
Oh - before I forget, can you name ANY cable provider in the US who doesn't outsource??
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Re: RE: Location
Charter Communications doesn't outsource, but i've been on hold for over 5 hours before. Speakerphone is a godsend
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Why is it a big issue ?
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Re: Why is it a big issue ?
You tell us.
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Companies just want to make more money
If a company is outsourcing some work to India or for that matter any country in the world, it is the responsibility of the company to make sure that the quality of this outsourced work is acceptable to its clients/consumers. If the company only cares about saving a lot of money and doesn't care about the quality, then it is upto the consumer/client to switch to another company or complain to the company about that.
Don't these companies know that Indians have a different accent than Americans ? They just want to make more money.
Would you (Americans) pay more for the same product that has a call center here comapred than in some other country ? I bet most of you won't ?
For those of you who are going to reply (try to kick my a**), I am a male. So that would be Mr.Srikanth
My 2 cents.
Srikanth
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Re: Companies just want to make more money
CORRECTION:
Would you (Americans) pay more $$ for the same product from a company that has a call center here (USA) compared to a product from a company that has a call center in some other country ? I bet most of you won't ?
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Re: Companies just want to make more money
Yeah, same here. I'm a "Mr."
If you only knew how much they pay for RR, CATV and VoIP.
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you make no sense
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Re: no sense
Duh.
Try reading.
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Yes, comsumers do have a right to know
Every product made outside of the US and sold here must be marked with a country of origin stamp. It makes complete sense to update the law to include services, now that they can be made outside of the US.
Consumers can't make informed decisions if the information they need is kept secret. Requiring teleservices to indicate their location is entirely resonable and alows consumers to make informed choices.
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Re: Yes, comsumers do have a right to know
Then again, who controls what you see, read, or hear?
Media? The governments(s)??
The best informaed choices are word of mouth.
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Foreign Outsourcing is ridiculous.
So you, as a company, save the money by outsourcing. But, is it worth the poor customer service?
I've worked in that industry for about 7 years now, and the main aspect I've learned about the Call Centers in India is that they know the script. Period. Nothing else.
Example: I once was configuring a network, and knew there was a setting within SBC's modem to set up PPOEE to be used via the router rather than through the modem itself.
After looking online, I found that the techs at SBC do know how to configure this, so I called. Spoke with a lady in India, who basically told me that the setting in THEIR MODEM was beyond their support boundaries, and that they don't support the modems they distribute (even though the number on the modem itself is SBC's number). After expressing my frustration, she put me on hold for about 10 minutes and said "Ok, after checking my resources, I do know we can do this, and normally we wouldn't..but..."
I despise the impersonal approach that provides to me. The service is horrible, and there's nothing better than calling Customer Service and hearing an American voice on the other end. I hate generalizing here, but it's been very rare that I come across someone foreign that has a clue what they're doing, and normally technicians in America tend to be a little more knowledgeable. Granted, sometimes this isn't true, but speaking for the majority of my experiences, it is.
Along the same lines, I worked a year for HP. It amazed me how many people thanked God that they had gotten ahold of an American, and expressed horrid experiences with overseas call centers.
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Re: "hearing an American voice"
"hearing an American voice"??
Or just an English-speaking one??
What if the rep you called had a German, Japanese or Spanish accent?
I'm Canadian. I speak English.
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There are two diffrent angles for this debate.
Firstly, the jobs are being taken from Americans and sold overseas for pennies on the dollar. That is terrible in any economy let alone our current economy. Forget that GWB promised this nation a huge increase in new jobs. He did it technically, just did it in India and Mexico. Now we debate whether or not to keep illegal aliens in the country. Why the heck not? At least then you can keep SOME work here.
As for getting past the language barrier:
I have had many conversations in a day with tech support for MS, and Symantec. Some of them are helpful and can speak clearly enough so I don't have to make them repeat themselves. Unfortunately as a PC technician fixing other peoples computers, I am at our customers mercy for the most part. The products they choose, we use.
I don't like the fact that the gov. needs to cover this by broadcasting where my call is going. Either end it or don't, simple as that.
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At least your not bitter
Thumbs up. An intelligent post.
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"What if the rep you called had a German, Japanese or Spanish accent? "
...then he would probably understand the tech he was supporting. But most of the time, it can be guaranteed that if the tech speaks Indian, that you will be on the phone for at least 2 hours without resolving anything - all the while, listening to (in pour engrish spoken word) a tech manual being read to you.
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Re:
But most of the time, it can be guaranteed that if the tech speaks Indian, that you will be on the phone for at least 2 hours without resolving anything - all the while, listening to (in pour engrish spoken word) a tech manual being read to you.
You twit, no one speaks "Indian". "Indian" is not a language!
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Americans are so frickin' arrogant!
There are other countries in the world, and some of them also speak English. Occassionally I call up tech support and far from being relieved at hearing an American voice on the other end I am disappointed as often their accent is more difficult to understand than an Indian English speaker!
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Re:
"Americans are so frickin' arrogant!"
It's funny how people who will go out of their way to debunk certain stereotypes will also go out of their way to perpetuate others.
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Tech support
I used to work in a Dell call-center and am I glad its over! I was supporting their servers and workstations and since these people had a "high end" account they got to speak to americans. I actually enjoyed one thing about that though. I would get a couple of calls a day where a customer would say "Oh, Thank GOD! You speak english!" And I knew immediately it was some stupid home user that can't configure his dial up modem to work with AOL Broadband! Then I would get to transfer him oversees. It felt so good.
Just a tip for all you Dell customers - the people taking calls are just as unhappy as you are! However, it will do you no good to hang up on them, but it sure makes them feel a lot happier.
And on the weekends when you are talking to a tech then you decide you want a manager. Not a good idea. Anybody called me and said that I transferred right over to the spanish queue or consumer where the hold times are +2 hrs.
I guess what I am saying is be nice to the tech. They really don't owe you anything.
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Seriously why is this an issue
Well I dont get one thing....what the hell are people babbaling about.I have called up so many american call centers and all of them know lesser about computers ( their product ) than my kid does.And they are proudly sitting here , complaining that jobs are going abroad , while they do nothing to get their skills up to match.
Tell me which tecH call center does not read from a manual???Even and american will have to read through the same script , there is no difference.
The point is simple, you call tech support when you are pissed about something not working.You are just pissed and when you get someone on the phone ; you have to let your furstation out.So curse the guy on the phone for somestupid mistake of your own and then waste 10 hours on the internet , telling everyone how bad the support was.RIDICULOUS.
I have had more trouble with our fellow americans in call centers than I ever had with an indian.
Look beyond the US boundaries morons, there is a bigger world out there which you have no clue about.
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Re: Seriously why is this an issue
And apparently you know "lesser" of the english language than Indians do?
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Re: Re: Seriously why is this an issue
Well see .... when you have nothing constructive to add to a discussion, then just leave while you are still ahead.
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Personally, I LOVE talking to folks in Indian call centers. Their English is almost always SUPERIOR to that found in American call centers, and the folks answering the phone are always polite, and able to take care of my problem with a minimum of fuss – American call center employees can’t match those from India – either in competence, or professionalism. If these are the fruits of outsourcing, I say VIVE LA OUTSOURCING!
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Well I dont get one thing....what the hell are people babbaling about.I have called up so many american call centers and all of them know lesser about computers ( their product ) than my kid does.And they are proudly sitting here , complaining that jobs are going abroad , while they do nothing to get their skills up to match. Tell me which tecH call center does not read from a manual???Even and american will have to read through the same script , there is no difference. Seriously, anybodys english would be better than yours and if you knew anything about call-centers it would be a miracle. You sir, are an IDIOT!
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Re:
Now calling anoyone an idiot is just a very stupid way of saying " I have nothing intelligent to say to your comment , so I will call you an idiot"
The topic is not about any individual's english, its about tech support being outsourced.
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Re: Re:
Which is in direct corrulation to the topic at hand. The major complaint here is americans don't want support from Indians because they are hard to understand; that and they feel they should get support from americans for american products. At least that was my experience from working in a call center. If I am wrong please feel free to tell me.
Jeremy is right when he says:
and
However, such commonsense seems to escape most people. Including the poster I called an IDIOT!
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Re: Re: Re:
Well I am glad U finally had something wise and comprehensible to say.Good Job.
My comment did invoke some intelligence.
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Re: Re: Re: Re:
However your posts are still lacking such wisdom and comprehension. Your comment did nothing but make me waste my time explaining to yet another idiot that should take his own advice
why I called the idiot poster an idiot.
Unless you are a completely different Anonymous coward (which I doubt since it seems right up to your level of intelligence)and if you were I could still care less.
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Location and Nationality are Irrelevant
I worked in tech support for Epson for 5 years. The main call centers, when I left were in Canada. We CONSISTANTLY provided better support than the American call centers, thus the move north.
We were under the strictest control of the U.S. head office. We all had to read from a script and follow support rules (limitations), that were handed down to us.
We couldn't support half the "issues" that actually related to our products, let alone the ones that didn't.
THE RULES ARE SET BY THE CORPORATIONS, NOT THE IDIVIDUAL.
I was constantly reprimanded for going beyond the "scope" of the company’s product support, even when the extra work prevented future repeat calls or finished the call faster than following the "rules".
If someone you speak to does not know the answer or is reading from a script - BLAME THE CORPORATION!
This has nothing to do with the physical location or nationality of the rep.
Think about it (if you can).
If the rep is not knowledgeable or proficient and the company cared, the rep would not be employed. These people have to do what they are told and ONLY what they are told. There is no room for the individual when the corporations are looking for nothing but "consistency" and productivity. Rarely is there much of a focus on quality.
Also, when you want to buy a full color printer (any other product or service also applies), capable of printing photographs and documents that equal or surpass photo lab quality ($50 000 - $150 000 equipment) for $49.99 and then have someone baby step you through not only the setup but the operation of the product - WTF KIND OF SERVICE DO YOU EXPECT???
Either you pay more for a product with better service or you save some money, be accountable for your own actions and invest some of your precious time to learn how to use a product!
95% of calls to a call center never need to be made.
Lastly, you get what you give. Most of the time if the person on the other end of the line is rude to you, you were rude first. (Either that or the person who called before you was.)
(WARNING: Generalization follows)
Of all the countries I have had the pleasure of working with, the U.S. is the most rude and demanding.
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Re: Location and Nationality are Irrelevant
THE RULES ARE SET BY THE CORPORATIONS, NOT THE INDIVIDUAL.
Nice post.Hit the nail on the head.
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hear ye!
I've been in the call center industry for 3 years and have been earning more that the minium pay here in our country. Thanks to american corporations who made the right decision in investing here in the Philippines!
Seriously, I do understand how frustrating it is to lose millions of jobs over non-english speaking countries like ours. But hear this: 1 employee in the U.S. equals 5 here in the Philippines. See? Not only do they save lots of money, but they also get to help thousands of filipinos.
But, I assure u that every penny paid is worth it. We are trained to speak excellent english. We may not sound like a true-blue american, but it's neutral.. it's comprehensible. Also, when I give service to american consumers, they are truly satisfied and would even complained that they have gone to store, dealt with "american" store representatives, but have not gotten any help -they even got the worst customer service.
just sharing my thoughts. ÜÜÜ
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Re: hear ye!
And that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy while I wait in the unemployment line looking for anything that pays more than $6.00/hr which is a third of what I was making before they figured they could outsource for cheaper. THANKS
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Re: Re: hear ye!
You're just sourgraping because you lost your job. We'll sorry for you then.hahaha Nowadays, its the survival of the fittest. Your country initiated globalization, and this is one of its effects. Goodluck to your future dude
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I don't care who, what or where my tech support comes from. I just want to talk to 1) someone that I can understand 2) someone who knows what he's talking about 3) someone who will lisrten to the particulars of my problem and not just try and follow a standard company script which will waste both of our times and lead nowhere.
The support can come from the US, Canada, Iceland, India or the Phillipines. It could come from the moon, for all I care. I'd be perfectly willing to get support from artificial intelligence - if it'll work
It's about quality, and nothing else.
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AOL vs RoadRunner?
If AOL owns or owned Time Warner, then why do they both provide separate internet services?
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