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That Fake Rolex You Buy In China May Cost You More Than The Real Thing
from the after-customs-has-its-way-with-you dept
Petréa Mitchell writes in to let us know about yet another case where trademark protection is being abused. "A guy decided to bring back some obviously fake Rolexes from China as souvenirs for his family. This was probably not a bright idea in any case, but US Customs thinks it's worth fining him $55,300. The fine is allegedly based on the street value of real Rolex watches, but he points out that there's no way anyone would pay a full Rolex price for fakes as obvious as these. The government says he should be glad it's only $55,300, because if Rolex had gotten personally involved it could have been $100,000... per watch." This one raises all sorts of questions. The thing is, buying these fake Rolexes shouldn't be against the law -- selling them should be. However, the guy wasn't caught selling them. Either way, while aren't there more important things for Customs to be doing than fining people for wearing fake Rolexes?
Reader Comments
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Qty Brought back?
Before we start questioning the fine, we should ask how many was he bringing back.
Because it wasn't disclosed in the liked article, I guess they were good forgeries and subsequently fooled customs. Possibly he deserves the fine levied?
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Learn from me
That's why I always bring back Festinas.
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RE: Qty brought back
He brought 8 watches back. 1 for each of his kids and grandkids. he was wearing one of them, the other 7 were in his bags.
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Either way, while aren't there more important things for Customs to be doing than fining people for wearing fake Rolexes?
er... the "more important" things are already being taken care of by Lucky and Flo!
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Scary
As someone who has lived in China for a few years and brings back fake crap all the time, I think this is freaken scary. You couldn't buy legit stuff here even if you wanted to. I'd have to come back naked if I didn't take anything fake or IP-infringing.
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Re: Scary
That is not just scary it is called smart bussiness selling fake Rolexes for about 10 grand or more what is the price of the real thing is called smart bussiness and that is making money smartly.
How many people in South America sell fake Rolexes and keep the real ones for themselves ? Well it will be alot of course if you have China on your side will you like to do this on an authrized Rolex dealer in the US on in any part of the world just to keep the shipment from Switzerland in the warehouse or just for promo and sell the Chinese fakes for the price of the real thing, well that is called working smart and China is the miracle place to have to real thing Rolex wathces soterd not even sold just for the kepts of having a lot of the real thing is it nice to work that way man I bet you will sell more Chinese fakes for the price of the real thing and you'll make more money and lots of effort.
Selling fake Rolexes to convince that people are buying the real thing is the biggest pride of people that do that if you don't do that it is called making money stupidly making smart money is being an athurized Rolex dealer just to keep the real ones for themselves and selling ordering the Chinese fakes by going to China or Hong Kong to buy the same amount of the number of the real Rolex watches but their the knockoffs to sell them in the price of the real ones is called working smart and that is why China is contributed the pride of selling fake Rolex watches.
That is why when some small time Rolex dealers autherized by Rolex of Switzerland in Colombia kept the real ones with selling it and you see a bunch of Colombians going to China and Hong Kong to buy a bunch of Rolex knockoffs to sell them for the price of the real thing back home that is how smart to work with Rolex fakes.
If you sell it for 300 dollars that is called stupid bussiness if you sell the phony Rolex for the price of the real thing is called smart bussiness and that is called working smart the best trick in the book is to concive the people that you are selling the real thing that is the best and smart way to sell a phony Rolex.
Please let people work smart by selling phony Rolex watches with the price tag of a real one, Just let them work smart man!
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Scary
As someone who has lived in China for a few years and brings back fake crap all the time, I think this is freaken scary. You couldn't buy legit stuff here even if you wanted to. I'd have to come back naked if I didn't take anything fake or IP-infringing.
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Re: Scary
"I'd have to come back naked if I didn't take anything fake or IP-infringing."
Look on the bright side-- you'd get through security a lot faster!
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Re: Re: Scary
I wouldn't bet on it. They'll just find other hiding places for drugs or bombs or whatever our Glorious Leaders have decided we're at war with right now.
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yes...
The American government, and it's agencies, are retarded.
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What's more retarded?
First off what the hell is the Homeland Security Department doing with anything regarding trademarks, copywright, etc... Protect my ass, not companies, within the united states from outside attacks (the physical kind that involve people dying, not their over gratuitous incomes). Second, you can't sue an individual for buying fake anything, you can however sue the seller, if they actualy use you're exact trademark. Although I guess why not just fine joe schmoe on home soil instead of incuring any actualy costs when the legal system fully warreats it? Also lets give a big round of applause to whatever idiot made the site where the originating article is hosted. You're a news agency, this means you should make all information that you have accessable to anyone, anytime; having to sumbit any information to you to continue on to the end of an article is just plain !)#*%ing idiotic.
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Parallel Importing
So a man comes through customs gets searched and his fake rolex watches are confiscated and he's fined $55,000.
This is to protect the commercial interests of the importer of Rolexes, because otherwise their business image might be hurt.
Their only right to use that name is a civil contract with Rolex in Switzerland. The Government is enforcing this civil right directly to protect the commercial interests of the importer of Rolexes.
Their right to money exceeds his right to money.
VISTA:
UK Government rejected a petition to do something about the high price of MS Vista in the UK.
In the 80's and 90's software was imported by grey (parallel) importers into the UK from US and sold cheaper.
Real US software, sold to the UK.
So vendors of software could not sell software at a high price in the UK and cheaper elsewhere - the UK could always get the best world price for any goods because parallel importers kept the price down.
Blair's government added a change in Copyright law that made importing goods for which an exclusive agreement for that market exists, illegal.
The consequence of this is the high price of Vista in the UK. The UK is no longer allowed to source the cheapest version of Vista.
Commercial right trumps free market.
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Parallel Importing
Uh, I thought the EU had rules that stated that parallel importing is legal from within another EU country.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Free Market
Free Market is an illusion.
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Re: Free Market
Shouldn't you be out protesting somewhere?
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that is such bs. wouldn't it be nice if he was able to sue the co that manufactured the watches. :P maybe he could make a profit.
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Parallel Importing EU->UK Yes, US->UK No
"I thought the EU had rules that stated that parallel importing is legal from within another EU country. "
Correct, UK law includes the EU exception in order to comply with the EU law.
USA is not in the EU, so the English language USA version of Vista cannot be imported. None English language version (e.g. I'm typing this on the French version of Windows) do not change to English, even if you select English language.
You can't do much about MS dividing the EU by language (well not without a lawsuit from the Commission anyway), but the block on importing US Vista is purely a UK only thing, and was introduced with a change to the copyright bill.
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So we're all surprised at yet another example of how the US government spends significant resources to ensure that corporate interests trump individual liberties?
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Jesus, he's only bring back for personal uses. Besides US government should punish consumers. I don't think they can do anything about it. And they definitely shouldn't from a consumer's viewpoint.
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In Italy, it is illegal to purchase fakes from street vendors, even when you obviously know it's a fake, on the theory that this only encourages the fakers.
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Memory
Memory I brought back $10,000 worth of fake memories from Russia I can’t wait for my fines to start rolling in.
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rolex
how would you feel if you owned rolex?
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Re: rolex
Like nothing was really done since the MANUFACTURER is the one pumping this stuff out. Busting a man who wasn't going to sell this crap in the first place does nothing at all to help FOLEX. :-) This is like how the police bust street corner drug dealers but can't do jack about the suppliers. Same shit different look. But in this case they busted the equivilent to a medical marijuana user. How stupid is this?
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Amazing!!! Again!!!
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I can't stop. That's no serious, that's it?
Be honest, you can buy all kind of fake stuff on the streets of Manhatan. Under the mustache of the cops, with his 1001 utilities batman' belts and bulldog faces!
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Dear Republican National Committee,
Your donation check is in the mail. Keep up the good work!
Rolex Corporation USA
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Buy then in NY
Why go through all the trouble... get the same cheap fakes on Canal St in New York :-)
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Rolex
Good thing they didnt look in his other bag. As I understand he had 4 kilos of cocaine. Sounds like it cost him $55k to make $250k.
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so mike...
you're stating that the consumer of the illegal function shouldn't be puniushed.. even though they know the item/service that they're engaging in is illegal...
cool... hope you stay consistent..
someone rips off your car. sells it to me/gives it to me. if i get caught, you'll come to my aid right?!! you'll argue that i'm just the consumer, i didn't do anything wrong... or will your argument change?
just curious...
part of the legal issue for punishing the person who commits the crime, as well as the person who might 'knowingly' benefit from the action is to deter people from gaining from illegal activity. there's also a theory that states that this kind of action reduces the profit motive for the person who commits the crime...
but you already know this....
peace
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Plausible Deniability
How did he know they were fake? Maybe they just caught his eye and he felt the need to buy them. Maybe he had never heard of Rolex?
The point I'm trying to make is that it's a hefty burden to expect consumers to authenticate their purchases. I bought a Burberry shirt on eBay once and it took me about 10 minutes to determine it was a fake, it was so realistic. And yes, that was inadvertant. I only wear the real deal, and I pay the real price for my goods.
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Re: Plausible Deniability
Yes, he knew they were fake. If you follow the link, the guy who bought the watches says they were cheap obvious fakes. Something you might find at a Dollar Store.
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Illegal?
"you're stating that the consumer of the illegal function shouldn't be puniushed.. even though they know the item/service that they're engaging in is illegal..."
$55,000? $100,000 per infringement?
It's not him thats doing the copying, it's the guy making the fake Rolexes. When Rolex copies a design, it's a civil matter and the company has to take Rolex to court. If you bought one of those Rolex's that infringes on other peoples IP rights, you would not be fined.
But when people copy Rolex's design, in the USA, out of all proportion, the person who bought the Rolexes is treated the same the person making them and faces stiff penalties.
It's unbalanced and unreasonable.
It's like Rolex can steal your car and you have to sue to get it back, but if you stole Rolex's car, the police come around and take the car and your house in compensation.
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Which law did he break?
I'm still trying to figure out which law was broken here.
Trademark law is designed to prevent sellers from passing off goods made by someone other than the trademark holder. For example, it prevents Bob from selling Bob's Cola as Coca Cola. The guy here is clearly not selling the watches. He is giving them to his family as presents. This in itself is not a breach of trademark.
I'm not sure if there are any parallel importing laws in place which would have an effect here. However, based on the text in the article, it seems there aren't.
So what exactly is this guy guilty of?
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call it by it's real name
The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it comes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power.
Franklin D. Roosevelt
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Happy ending
The charges have now been dropped.
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Re: Happy ending
Glad it turned out okay. You must have been in shock. Glad the customs agents didn't press charges. Your just a working guy. Anyone would've bought it at those prices and they probably would've done the same thing you did. Why not? Not everyone can afford the real thing.
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Trademark infringement, not copyvio
At worst he would have been a witting victim of trademark infringement, not a purcheser of pirated watches. I would very much doubt that anhy Rolex patent would have been infringed on by a maker of very cheap knock-offs, and the design would be very unlikely to be copyrightable, since the design of a watch body is unlikely to contain any work of originality. Provided he did not intend to sell or otherwise deistribute the watches, IANAL, but there appears to be no crime commited here except for upsetting Rolex USA.
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IPR
International Property Rights. I love to bring back an occasional watch replica -- But I never kid myself into thinking it is either right or legal.
What is really funny -- is if you go to China - and buy Fake Rolex watches - and pay them with counterfit American money :)
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Rolex
Just took my Rolex in for service here in Toronto
$5oo. for complete service... People wonder why fakes are so popular??
P.S. They also told me Geneva is no longer making parts for my model
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Fines for Folex's
He should have got some cheap Rolex look alikes at WAL-MART. They are the same exact chinese watches except they don't have the Rolex logo on them.
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The guy was dumb
While I admit that the authorities may have taken this a little to far to "set an example" The guy was clearly not the brightest bulb. EVERY single time I have traveled abroad, on the way back(usually on the aircraft) I was given a customs declaration form to fill out. He should have read the fine print. Also going all the way to China to buy fake Rolexes is kind of stupid, when you can buy them in the market district of any major US city. That being said, there are PLENTY of very high quality watches around that are much lower priced and keep way better time than a real Rolex. I would not give a fake watch, handbag etc. to any of my family members. Maybe to a co-worker as a gag gift, that's about it.
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The guy was dumb
While I admit that the authorities may have taken this a little to far to "set an example" The guy was clearly not the brightest bulb. EVERY single time I have traveled abroad, on the way back(usually on the aircraft) I was given a customs declaration form to fill out. He should have read the fine print. Also going all the way to China to buy fake Rolexes is kind of stupid, when you can buy them in the market district of any major US city. That being said, there are PLENTY of very high quality watches around that are much lower priced and keep way better time than a real Rolex. I would not give a fake watch, handbag etc. to any of my family members. Maybe to a co-worker as a gag gift, that's about it.
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Third paties Rights! How to work around US law.
I got a question here, because I run a successful replica stricly online business.
Try this out and see if it fits.
When selling fakes, Make it clear, that you are not the seller, that you clearly disclaim authenticity somewhere in fine print, accept no warranties, take no posession of physical goods, are not an expert, but are only a sourcing agent connecting buyers with sellers for a fee. The seller is China, where trademark law does not exist,and is therefore free to sell any so-called infringing item to anyone anywhere. Clearly state you are a third party collecting a finder's fee from the sale of the item, and remaining funds are forwarded to the seller (china). Trademark laws (or so-called intellectual property rights) have different meaning in different jurisdictions. Not every country (china) recognizes such law. And in theory, you (a US citizen) operating a strictly online busines, drop shipping items, never actually seeing them, and being honest with buyers (in fine print) disclaiming everything. And ALWAYS offering a REFUND policy, THIS is how I operate my very lucrative knock-off business, and while I still may get in trouble I HAVE A HUGE DEFENSE. I dont see 'em, I never have 'em, They are shipped by a country it is legal to do so in, and I am strictly online, so its not like its a business operating on nation soil. The internet last time I checked is owned by no country. I could be completely missing something here, but this is how I do it, this is how i keep it. To remain completely out of a trace of legal trouble, best practictices maybe just move out of the USA. Also, Certain High Risk Merchant Accounts will allow you to accept credit cards, and sell people FAKES. These are harder to aquire, and are offshore banks, with high rates, but yup it's legal. Dont expect to find paypal or any US based merchant account to allow you to do this.
My 2 cents.
James Rudy
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Give him a slap on the hand.
Ok, who has traveled abroad and not bought a fake Rolex?? I prefer the one's made in Hong Kong they tend to be of a better quality. I have had one for 10 years and have 8 other ones to wear as well. But the old saying is don't do the crime if you can't pull the time. ( Or pay the money)
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Rolex Knock Offs
So we bust someone bringing back fake Rolex's. I just searched the web and can buy 100's of fakes in the US from $50 to $200 bucks. So why isn't customs or the trade comission cracking down.....
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Not suprised by that ruling.
That poor man, I feel that the worst case scenario, he should have to ship the items back, and/or maybe have the option of serving in jail for a month, Community service for 160 hours , or pay $5000 total in fines one of those three (worst case one of those). (We have rapist and murders that get off easier than that, that's how messed up our government is) Basically what’s happening is the government is punishing a man, for taking pennies from a major corporation. I think that the governments’ way of “making an example” of that man is absolutely infuriating and disappointing. In 20 years they’ll probably bring back hanging, shooting people, or forcing them into slave labor(prison for minor crimes which they have now) and then “making an example” will take on a new face. The government is slowly starting to oppress the people (it's no secret). Which if I’m wrong is why we revolted against the British to begin with, due to taxes (very high now), and strict laws which (we have now example above). Now we're having that all happen over again in modern times it's called justice and contributing to your country's oppressive power it’s only a matter of time before people just need to wake up and protest about everything it's has to stop... Things like these need to stop It’s ridiculous the government was basically designed to protect the people, not legally make them slaves (my point of view) or take their hard earned money. Just a thought from a peasant but really land of the free should be land of the legally oppressed. I hate to say that but look around you. Rich people sure they love how everything is working out but, everyone else well tough luck go to college (good luck finding a decent job unless you mom or dad has some pull). Another thing is it's easy to inherit a business but to create one now is near impossible thanks to all the laws.
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Kudos to the U.S. Customs Service!
Illegal replica being purchased and resold in the U.S. by thoughtless clods are destroying the watch collecting hobby. In addition, replica watches are being used by scammers to defraud thousands of people on numerous online auction and retail sites.
It's a sad note that counterfeiting has become so pervasive in our society that people seem to have forgotten that these fake goods are illegal. It's also a sad moral statement about our society that even those who do know the counterfeit products are illegal, choose to purchase them anyway.
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Fake Rolex
First, the obvious crime was importing in sufficient quantity to suggest it was a reseller operation. (Like drugs, I assume if you are caught with sufficient quantities, there's an automatic assumption in law of "trafficking"). Where do you draw the line? 1, 3, 5, 10? If it's too high, the smuggler could just recruit large families of "mules".
Secondly, when you go through customs, all bets are off. They can ask you questions that are illegal for officers on the street. If you are a foreigner, they can arbitraily refuse you entry and then you have to (a) return home at your own expense and (b) file expensive papers to beg for the right to be let into the land of the free. If you lie on the customs form, all bets are off; so you MUST incriminate yourself. I bet he was clever enough to tell them "oh, yeah, I have a few fake rolexes" and the customs guy was having a bad day.
The real crime here is the made-in-Disneyland IP policy with overly punitive fines. This is the same law, bought and paid for by big business, that says sharing a song is a $50,000 crime, with no proof of any damages required. (The constitutionality argument is winding through the courts still - is this cruel and unusual punishment?).
The real lesson in fakes is, what is the real value of an item? If I can slap "Prada" or "Rolex" or "Gucci" on something and it looks like it's worth 100 times more, something is wrong.
Oddly, Canal street does not sell fake Gucci or Armani suits or Jimmy Cho shoes or BMW cars - the difference between real markup and perceived value is not good enough there, so the difference between "real value" (what most people want to pay for it) and what the real makers charge for it, must be much smaller.
Most brands are just a billboard for status; humans are monkeys fighting for pack dominance and will take the shortcut of fake status symbols to enhance their prestige and appear higher on the tree than they are.
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Fake Rolex
Real people buy real products. Fake people buy fake products.
Why can't we just all live together in peace!
Holy mother of God!
Any company that sells a watch or purse for $100K is just asking for trouble. Rolex didn't lose a potential customer here.
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Copyright !?!
Copyright doesn't concern fake or imitation of Rolex.
To be illegal, those what you call fake Rolex must be similar to the real Rolex. And they are not! They look like a Rolex like Citizen does too.
What parts in those Rolex immitations have in common with a 'real Rolex' .NONE! The movement is different, the maeking is different, the Rolex logo is different, the arms are different, The gold plated parts are different etc...So, what copyright problem do we have here? Those watches have nothing in common with the real Rolex. Do we have to sue a Toyota because they use the same body than a Honda? Today, a lot of cars have the same look. So, is it copyright problem?? I do not think so. We can see that in the Jean's business and in the entire fashion business. You can copy a Levi's jeans. You just have to add a detail or not to put the brand at the same pocket ! So, in this case, Ido not see copyright problem. But if you record a DVD , it's another story(In the US anyway) because your copy will be exactely the same that the original is and...Anyway, the picture printed on it, you will not be able to do the same think. So, ....! If cannot copy, why they sell recorders for 60 years and VCR and DVD burners etc...This law is not realistic about Rolex
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