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Again? Wal-Mart's Straight Talk 'Unlimited' Mobile Data Plan Actually Quite Limited
from the that's-not-straight-talk dept
And I thought the days of companies claiming "unlimited" data plans when they really were very very limited had died out after Verizon Wireless got fined and started backing away from claiming "unlimited" data for plans that were actually quite limited. However, with Walmart teaming up with TracFone to offer the misleadingly-named "Straight Talk" mobile phone service, some are noticing the return of very limited mobile data offers advertised as "unlimited." As is pointed out in that link, beyond simply being flat-out wrong and more than a bit deceiving, it's pretty ridiculous for a brand called "Straight Talk" to lie in its advertising, and hide the details in the very very fine print.
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Straight Talk...
...is obviously a "Brand Name" of some sort; and bears no relation to the actual product.
(Not unlike "Fresh" fruit; or "Quality" electronics.)
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So basically, the guy is upset because unlimited data only applies to the actual uses that the phone is intended for, and not for tethering, or streaming audio.
Seems to me that he is suffering mostly from his own outrageous expections, not false advertising. Reading that he is a recently graduated lawyer sort of made the rest of the point for me.
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The data is still unlimited, it just doesn't (appear to) have a full web browser. I've been curious about this plan since I heard about it last week and after looking at the phones yesterday I don't think they're capable of actual web browsing. It's still a great deal for someone who just talks and texts a lot. It's not an iphone by any means, the phones are what you would expect to find for free from Verizon 2-3 years ago.
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@AC: So basically, the guy is upset because unlimited data only applies to the actual uses that the phone is intended for..
NO. You are in severe need of a reading comprehension skills class. I would recommend one that covers the basics in your case..ahem. The entire sales pitch is completely-fabricated misleading BS! How's that for starters? The only reason he was able to discover that "unlimited data" means "very limited data" is because he is a lawyer (which it seems is a neccessary skill set for reading TOS agreements these days, but that's another post). Take a short walk of a long pier jackass.
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Re:
Right, so the data is limited to certain uses that the operator has every incentive to keep as limited as possible...I don't see how you're arguing that this fits into the definition of an "unlimited data plan". If his expectations are so unreasonable, why is this distinction buried deep in the fine print?
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Re:
Calm yourself ... I don't want another blood vessel in your eye exploding. You remember what that looked like last time. That poor child really shat his pants he was so scared of you.
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Oh right. Since the "actual uses that the phone are intended for" differ from person to person. shame on him for wanting to using it in a way that suited him. So all he's supposed to do is surf random web pages and check email? I mean, if it was a limited data plan, then sure, but unlimited? Come on.
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BTW, the guy never says this plans totally sucks etc..He even states (for those detractors who actually READ the damn post vs. the idiot of the month AC) in the article that for pure text/voice this MIGHT be a good deal. The problem comes from the comparison of this "unlimited" plan vs. other carriers "all you can eat" services. Such a comparison, as the linked article points out, is useless.
So even if this plan were "fair" and not "misleading", at best you are required to jump through numerous hoops to compare plans. That alone for MANY,MANY,MANY people is a deal killer.
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They should be fined so hard that they go bankrupt. I'm tired of misleading advertising.
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Will the real John Doe please stand up?
Dude, I have been posting as JD for a long time now, get a new name. :)
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From what I can see, the "unlimited" part is true, it's just that they have defined "data" as "data that comes through our limited application offerings, which won't include streaming audio or video".
That definition of "data" should absolutely be spelled out more plainly, but overall it wasn't as misleading as I was expecting.
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Re: Will the real John Doe please stand up?
No.
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@Chris Rhodes: Are you seriously that dense? Any time you have to follow "X statement is true" with "except for, but, or "it's just that" then clearly it IS NOT true as initially stated. Duh,duh,duh,duh.....DUH!
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I'm the real John doe
This it it right here. I am John Doe.
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Basically, data != internet.
He assumed data = internet.
They could've been more clear as to exactly what kind of data you would be getting in unlimited amounts (technically, unlimited phone and text messaging could be "unlimited data" -- hey, everything's data, right?), but they don't ever seem to promise unfettered access to all of the internet.
It seems roughly equivalent to going to an all-you-can-eat buffet at a Chinese restaurant and complaining that you can't get lasagna.
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Re: Re:
Exactly the point. The data is unlimited, for use on the phone, for the apps that are on the phone.
The guy is being a doorknob because he is looking only at "UNLIMITED" and not paying attention, making him the moron in a hurry. Funny, coming from a lawyer.
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Re: Re:
No, it's more like going to an all-you-can eat Chinese buffet, and getting a big bill for the eggrolls at the end of the night because the very fine print on the menu, which was taken away after you were seated, specifies that the eggrolls located on the buffet are not included as all-you-can-eat.
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Re: I'm the real John doe
No you aren't, you can't even properly reply to the right post. The real John Doe, me, is at least smart enough to do that.
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That doesn't really follow. Definitions are important.
If they define "data" in a particular manner, and then say that such data is available to you in an unlimited quantity, then what they said is absolutely true.
Burying their definition of "data" deep inside contract legalese is pretty crappy, though.
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RE: X statement with "but" is not actually true
@Anonymous1
The context is important. Everything needs context. Otherwise I could expect that "unlimited" means I can download the entire interwebs, file sharing to my heart's delight, for the rest of eternity, for free. We have to define these things in objective terms, which they do in the fine print, as is standard for most legal agreements.
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@Chris Rhodes, Anonymous2, and any others who like beating horses to death: Yes definition and context are important. I never claimed otherwise. Your defense however of Walmart's practices here, and their "definitons" is a joke. I didn't ask what is "standard for most legal agreements" either. Yes most legal agreements for products/services contain fine print, both as a CYA strategy, and in order to define the agreement hence the acronym "TOS". Most newspapers have headlines too. If the headline from the NY Time's is "Osama Bin Ladin raises puppies and is a world humanitarian" however, then one needs to question that headline. They clearly, CLEARLY are trying to advertise one thing, and then provide another. It may very well skirt the claim technically, of false advertising. What it DOES NOT do however, is provide a service as advertised. As I said, someone can think unlimited means what Anonymous2 said, and those who would try and use overly broad definitons are just as abhorant. Mike's summary however, and the link speak for themselves. It is "unlimited" in the terms most meaning "limited". At a certain point a word loses it's meaning, and it truely strains credibility to define "unlimited" as is done with the Walmart plan. Sorry. So Chris Rhodes, they can define it how they want to, but that doesn't make that definition ACCURATE or comparable to other's use of the term.
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Let's add to the discussion: For Unlimited to be truly unlimited, it would require the phone to be faster than all of the other internet connections in the world combined, allowing it to have actual access to all data realtime. So even on that level, the unlimited would be limited by the abilities of the network and the phone itself.
I would say that this guy has a very unrealistic expectation, and didn't pay attention.
Mike, did you even read what the article you linked from PCMag had in it? "Users can choose between a $45 per month plan that offers unlimited calls, texts, and mobile Web access"
Mobile web access, aka access the web from your mobile phone. I know, it sort of knocks the story off the rusty hinge you tried to hang it on.
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Re: Re: Re:
More like the menu specifies in the fine print that:
1. The all-you-can-eat offer applies only to items located on the buffet table.
2. Egg rolls are are specifically not provided on that buffet table.
3. You may not at any time bring in your own buffet table, especially for the purpose of making egg rolls available on it.
(This analogy is becoming strained. But you get the picture .)
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Re: Straight Talk...
...is obviously a "Brand Name" of some sort; and bears no relation to the actual product.
(Not unlike "Fresh" fruit; or "Quality" electronics.)
I remember there being some gas stations around where I lived at one time that were selling "100 Octane" premium gasoline that turned out to be actually somewhat less than 100 octane. They claimed that it wasn't deceptive because "100 Octane" was just the product "name". This was back when the state Attorney General would actually go after such things and they made them change the name. I bet they could get away with it today.
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I'm the real John doe
No, I AM the real John Doe.
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Depends on what the meaning of data is is
Remember Bill Clinton parsing the meaning of the word is? So now when I use the word data, I have to describe the context of data so people don't think just any kind of data? yes, the internet is data so in a sense unlimited data would, to me, assume anything on the internet.
I propose, rather than parsing the word data, why don't they simply change their claim to be realistic and say unlimited text and usage of the phone's built-in browser on select networks. Deceit is deceit with or without an asterisk.
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Mike, did you even read what the article you linked from PCMag had in it..
Actually Public Knowledge is the link you need to look at, or you can continue your uniformed rant while ignoring the key points. Vested interest perhaps? LOL...twit.
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Re:
Your defense however of Walmart's practices
I'm not sure why you are accusing me of "defending Wal-Mart's practices". I've already said that they should have been more up front about their definitions.
What it DOES NOT do however, is provide a service as advertised.
It does, under the definitions used.
At a certain point a word loses it's meaning, and it truely strains credibility to define "unlimited" as is done with the Walmart plan.
"Unlimited" seems to describe the plan fairly accurately regarding the types of data specified. It doesn't seem to be stretching the meaning of the word at all.
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Re: Re: Re:
No, it's more like going to an all-you-can eat Chinese buffet, and getting a big bill for the eggrolls at the end of the night...
There was actually a Chinese buffet that made the news in my town for doing that. If they thought someone ate more than what they considered "reasonable" they would add a surcharge on to the bill. It was right there in fine print on the back of the menu. This was apparently the way they had been doing business for some time and it didn't seem to be hurting their business any (so much for "reputation" having any effect). The only reason it made the news was because they called the police and had a guy who wouldn't pay the surcharge arrested and his family had connections made a big stink about it.
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From what I can see, the "unlimited" part is true, it's just that they have defined "data" as...
Well, if you make up your own definitions for everything then anything you say is going to be true, isn't it? I think they teach that in fraud 101.
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"The only reason it made the news was because they called the police and had a guy who wouldn't pay the surcharge arrested and his family had connections made a big stink about it."
Based on my limited experience with buffet dinners, I'm fairly certain that guy was making a big stink in a variety of ways....
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Unlimited" seems to describe the plan fairly accurately regarding the types of data specified. It doesn't seem to be stretching the meaning of the word at all.
@Chris Rhodes:Last attempt at basic logic here Chris, you really are starting to be a bore. Again "the data types specified" which do not include the internet. Yawn..I tried.
Go ahead Chris, continue to be a shill for the lowest common denominator of corporate practice. It seems to suite you well.
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I read both, and it's important. Newbie lawyer ranting on one side, and a clear indication that the unlimited was on the mobile device on the other. The more you read, the more it appears that the newbie lawyer didn't even read the big print, let alone the fine print.
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Again "the data types specified" which do not include the internet.
Streaming audio/video is not "the internet". As I read the fine print, they say you may not access the internet except through their apps. If they include no apps to access the internet at all, then I agree that "data" is misleading, since that basically eliminates all data entirely under any definition.
Go ahead Chris, continue to be a shill for the lowest common denominator of corporate practice. It seems to suite you well.
How many times must I say it? Wal-Mart should have been more up front about their definitions. You keep trying to push the "Wal-mart Defender" angle, and I'm starting to think that perhaps I'm just feeding a troll . . .
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Re: Re:
It does, under the definitions used.
So, you're saying that their special definition of "unlimited" was given in the advertisement so that everyone one who saw the ad was immediately aware of what it really meant and that the word was not being used in the usual sense? And the "definition" was not just in the contract fine print? That's not how I understood the situation at all. What is your source for that?
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Re: Re:
True, but the word "data" isn't exactly very specific in and of itself.
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Re: Re: Re:
Hmm, perhaps we are reading it two different ways.
I read "unlimited" in terms of the quantity of data allowed, but perhaps some people such as yourself read "unlimited" in terms of scope.
Under my reading, the limited data types are available in unlimited quantity, and thus the advertisement is misleading only in the definition of "data".
Under your reading, however, I can see how "unlimited" would be seen as misleading, since the type of data allowed is, in fact, quite limited.
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Re: Re: Re:
If you want to look at it ignorantly, unlimited could mean enough bandwidth to open your own ISP and sell connectivity to your friends. Heck, you could buy just one phone, hook your massive multiple player game server to it, and host an unlimited number of games off of it. Perhaps replace your entire company network for 1000 people with a few cables and one phone powering all of it.
Yeah, that would be unlimited.
Mobile Unlimited? AHHH! unlimited on that mobile, got it. You can use the mobile online to obtain an unlimited amount of data, based only on the limitations of the phone itself.
Just like the old unlimited buffet - there are no doggy bags from the buffet, and there is no unlimited outside of the phone.
It's amazing that anyone finds this hard to understand.
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@Chris Rhodes: I'm not a troll, but I was waiting for the switch to click into place. It did with this statement "Under your reading, however, I can see how "unlimited" would be seen as misleading, since the type of data allowed is, in fact, quite limited."
We have a winner.....That's exactly it. The type of data is limited. Either way saying they "should be more upfront" is again, IMO, an major understatement. It's not just that they SHOULD be more up front, it's that is appears to me intentionally misleading to do otherwise. Sorry for sounding troll like, but you really didn't seem to get the point. My apologies if I crossed the line.
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Re:
Looks like it was perhaps just a difference of interpretation.
Much like if I saw the aforementioned buffet advertising "Unlimited Food!", I would assume that "unlimited" was in reference to the available quantity of food and not that they necessarily offered an "unlimited" selection of food types.
Anyway, mystery solved.
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Re: Re: Straight Talk...
Thats even funnier/sadder if you factor in the fact that 100 octane gas would offer ABSOLUTELY NO advantage to any street-driven car out there.
Octane isn't related to power, but speaks to resistance of combustion caused by high-compression engines.
Was the gas station in question full of funny cars and drag racers? I'd guess not.
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Re: Will the real John Doe please stand up?
Good job picking a unique ID!!
You might as well have registered as "Anonymous Coward"
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Re: Re:
I can see that you disagree with Wal-Mart/TracFone's practices, but I don't think absolving them of misleading advertising is as simple as showing that they meet the terms under their own definitions; as someone mentioned before, if this were the case then it would be effectively impossible to ever have false advertising.
For instance, most people would assume that any information you can legally download to your phone via provided outlet access(i.e. the internet) would be considered "data"--which it is. Most people also assume that all-you-can-eat buffets under common vernacular are limited to the amount of food the individual can consume in one sitting of the food provided by the establishment. In my mind, the effective analogy is that a restaurant advertises an all-you-can-eat buffet and then states in the legalese that the "buffet" is limited to just one of two buffet tables. The average person understands an all-you-can-eat buffet to included all food provided in all buffet tables.
Now, maybe I'm different from the general public, but when I read unlimited data, I don't think, "Cool, I guess I get all the texts and phone calls I want, but I'll have to read through the entire phone print to see what Internet data is included". If Wal-Mart were being honest, they would have stated "unlimited texts and calling" instead of "unlimited data" like many other ads do, because neither most people nor most dictionaries consider the two to be equivalent.
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Re: Re: Re: Straight Talk...
Thats even funnier/sadder if you factor in the fact that 100 octane gas would offer ABSOLUTELY NO advantage to any street-driven car out there.
Octane isn't related to power, but speaks to resistance of combustion caused by high-compression engines.
Not today, but this was back in the 1970's and there were indeed street driven hot-rods that could make use of such gas. I can remember hot-rodders back then going out to the airport to buy real 100 octane aviation gas.
Was the gas station in question full of funny cars and drag racers? I'd guess not.
Funny cars don't use pump gas, even 100 octane. And they don't drive them to neighborhood gas stations to fill them up either. A little more knowledge and a little less snark would do you good.
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Re: Re: Will the real John Doe please stand up?
You might as well have registered as "Anonymous Coward"
I registered that one a long time ago. The other ACs are all impostors.
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Re:
"I would say that this guy has a very unrealistic expectation, and didn't pay attention."
No, that's the thing. It's not unrealistic because several other phone companies who advertise with the same terms, "Unlimited Data", do not have those same restrictions.
So the REASONABLE expectation would be that this plan would not have those limitations either.
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Re: Re: Re: Re:
More importantly, what kind of filling is in the egg roll?
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Re: Straight Talk...
or in china, Super Time Corp
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Straight Talk...
Really? You found that snarky and lacking in knowledge?
Damn. I didn't even get started.
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If you go to the Straight Talk website, they clearly list that the $45 thirty day plan is intended for unlimited texts, calls, and data. I really don't understand what the whole commotion is about all of this. I think that this is a great thing that Straight Talk and Wal-mart is doing, because they are allowing people to have a cheap plan and great coverage (Straight Talk uses Verizon Wireless coverage). Trust me, I've been through plenty of cell phone companies, from AT&T to Sprint, and none of them have given me the same amount of satisfaction than Straight Talk.
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If you go to the Straight Talk website, they clearly list that the $45 thirty day plan is intended for unlimited texts, calls, and data. I really don't understand what the whole commotion is about all of this. I think that this is a great thing that Straight Talk and Wal-mart is doing, because they are allowing people to have a cheap plan and great coverage (Straight Talk uses Verizon Wireless coverage). Trust me, I've been through plenty of cell phone companies, from AT&T to Sprint, and none of them have given me the same amount of satisfaction than Straight Talk.
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Re:
When you look at their advertisement it says in big letters that the unlimited plan includes 30mb of data usage. It's printed right in front of the customers' eyes in big letters. It is only deceiving to people who take no personal responsibility for their actions or purchases.
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Phone Usage
The way I interrupt that is that if you add an application allowing the phone to do more than what it can do when you first buy it that unlimited is no longer unlimited. From the way its stated and how it sounds is that is the phone can do it with the apps it already has on it, besides streeming games,audio, uploading and downloading of the same, that it is unlimited. So in other words if you phone will access the internet and open webpages with the apps it has then its unlimited.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Straight Talk...
Octane does not mean its resistance to combustion. The higher octane cause the longer it takes to burn and to reach its full energy release. Thats why higher compression ratio engines require higher octane because the timing are more advanced then a lower compression engine
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Re:
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Re:
Geeks, Enough !!!
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