Can't Distribute iPod Subway Maps?
from the pointless dept
When I got my first Palm Pilot many years ago, the first thing I downloaded for it was a NYC subway map, which came in handy a few times. Apparently, I wouldn’t be the only one who thought so, as someone set up a website full of downloadable subway maps that could be viewed on iPods. Unfortunately, the local transit authorities in New York and San Francisco weren’t too happy about it and accused the guy of violating their trademark. It’s a public transit map that’s being given out so that people can make better use of public transportation. It seems ridiculous that these agencies would get in a snit over the fact that the map wasn’t “properly licensed.”
Comments on “Can't Distribute iPod Subway Maps?”
His site has about 20 other maps
Download subway maps for your iPod
Lawyer’s letter plus donation link
Customer Service Improvement
This is what happens when you let lawyers loose. Instead of seeing this as a marketing opportunity and a customer service improvement, they send a cease and desist letter. They should have asked the guy if they could provide a link to the map on their website.
The sad part
The real problem is that things produced with tax money should be in the public domain, including federally funded research and subway maps. Not being automatically in the public domain is theft not taxing.
Re: not entirely produced with tax money...
Let me start by saying that subway maps probably should be free as the system makes its primary funds from people using the subway (aka tubes).
In the case of public transportation, the government provides some funding for these services, but most of the money for operations comes from people using the subway. That blurs the line a little more. If the subway was free to use and entirely funded from taxpayer funds, it would be more likely to be freely available.
Also, not everything produced by public funds is freely available or should be. It completely depends on the model setup by that agency and/or its funding source. There is a large amount of information/research/services created or operated for by the government (local, state or federal) that is not free. It generally depends on the cost to create the information, whether or not the government wishes to monitor who receives it, if it matters that the government always keep the information up to date, etc.
On a side note, people tend to view maps as free because they get them on Yahoo, Google or Mapquest, but they are not. These companies make a large amount of money from providing advertising on these sites. They also only create the software and leave the map creation to a company called NAVTEQ, who makes the maps for all of them and almost all of the navigation systems worldwide. If you think about buying a navigation system for your car or application for your phone, you see the price more.
Re: The sad part
Gov’t funded research should NOT automatically be in the public domain because then those tax-funded agencies give up any chance of making licensing revenues from the research. That would mean that they would then need even more tax money to keep oprating instead of becoming at least partly self-sufficient.
IPod and Public Transport
Public funds are used to create public transportation. These maps are part of the public domain. You can not copyright something that was paid for by and for the people. This whole matter is about the control of information and not an infringement on copyright material. The public transit system is there to be used and to be used properly, a person needs to have access to the information and not have to file a civil action lawsuit in order to find out if the next stop is the one that he wants. Access to information is part of our new age, our public servents need to understand this and get on with the work they have been hired to do. Public access to the transit system, public access to the maps of that system, access to a good lawyer when those in positions of power step beyond their roles as servents. Just a few thoughts…
James Hahn
Seattle, WA
Re: IPod and Public Transport
James: As a lawyer that specializes in copyright law and intellectual property, I hate to tell you this but you are wrong.
If the information/report were entirely funded by the government, then you would have the ability to file a freedom of information act to get a copy of the information, and you could provide it to others, but that IS NOT the case with public transportation. The majority of the funding comes from people using the service and advertising on the trains/buses. Public transportation entities are pseudo-government divisions because of this and are not required by law to provide you information or service for free.
Do you also suggest that because the goverment gives some portion of tax dollars to these groups that you should ride for free?
Re: Re: IPod and Public Transport
There are many examples of the acceptance of any government money requires that you play by government rules. This is probably not the case here, but maybe it is something that should have been discussed especially if the public transportation system in question would not exist without government backing.
If the information presented for download wasn’t a scan of the current transportation schedual (as it appears to be) would it still be copyrite infingment? How about if the download was a map/list verifiable/generated by ones own observation?
Re: Re: IPod and Public Transport
If the iPod maps are given away for free, I think the government would have a hard time winning a case here. Now, if the transit dudes were SELLING an official iPod map (which I doubt they have the brains or expertise to do), that would be a different story.
Re: Re: Re: Arrrrr... Let Go of Me Pirate Map!!
Today the living relatives of Amerigo Vespucci produced a 500 year old document and filed suit for Copyright infringement against the United
States of America.
Re: Re: IPod and Public Transport
You may be a lawyer, but you are no transportation planner. Fares and advertising cover some of the operating costs. Any operating deficit and all capital costs are funded by the government. Only one transit system in the world makes a profit: Hong Kong (and that is because they are also a land developer). In North America, the Toronto Transit Commission has the highest fare recovery ratio of 80% – or for every dollar spent on operating the system, the TTC recovers 80 cents at the farebox. The MTA has a ratio of about 50% – that means that taxpayer is on the hook for the other half. Advertising revenues are mininmal.
IPod and Public Transport
Public funds are used to create public transportation. These maps are part of the public domain. You can not copyright something that was paid for by and for the people. This whole matter is about the control of information and not an infringement on copyright material. The public transit system is there to be used and to be used properly, a person needs to have access to the information and not have to file a civil action lawsuit in order to find out if the next stop is the one that he wants. Access to information is part of our new age, our public servants need to understand this and get on with the work they have been hired to do. Public access to the transit system, public access to the maps of that system, access to a good lawyer when those in positions of power step beyond their roles as servants. Just a few thoughts…
James Hahn
Seattle, WA
Proposing a solution
This has to stop, so I wrote up what I think might be a tenable solution.
Public Agencies’ Public Documents Should Be Public Domain [on GearBits]
Branding
Don’t know about the USA, but in the UK London Underground control the use of their map very tightly. They have copyright and enforce it not so much on the content, but combination of content and style (at least, this was true when I wished to use it on a website).
I don’t know, but I’d guess that drawing your own map wouldn’t cause a problem, but using theirs which they view much like a trade mark, does.
Does anyone have the maps?
Looking for the San Francisco and New York maps. Thanks.
NYC Subay Map files
There are files for the NYC Subay Map here:
http://www.thenycsubwaymap.com/NYCSubwayMap.zip
Grab them ASAP and share them with others (host them, file share, bit torrent, etc).
Good luck.