How Not To Respond To MySpace Stupidity
from the overreaction-central dept
It's no secret that many schools are struggling with the question of how to deal with MySpace. A lot of parents have been freaking out, and that's crossed over into schools -- many of which have tried to ban the use of MySpace, teaching kids a great lesson in how to overreact and try to bury or ignore issues, rather than learning to deal with them. The latest story, though, shows just how ridiculous the overreaction can get. A student who clearly has some other issues to deal with posted a MySpace group designed specifically around his hatred for a particular girl. It was definitely over-the-top, and the student was suspended and the school is trying to expel him. However, the school also suspended 20 students who just looked at the page. Not only were these students suspended for actions done completely outside of school, it seems somewhat silly to suspend students just for looking at a website (especially as many had no idea what they were looking at until they got there). What kind of lesson is this teaching kids?
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Heh..
Wow, I get to start of this comment stuff, cool..
Anyways, on with what I was going to say. You know.. I could expect that out of my school. The parents of todays kids except for a few seem to do nothing but blame. Okay, if the kids homicidal, get him help, don't yell at the site that let him express his feelings. I would hate to be one of the 20.. Just get a random link, from the blue, and you just click.. I know everyone has that.. Impulse to just click a link when seen. Hrrm.. Guess they're way off track in the west coast as they are here.. Kind of funny how the Parents now blame more than the kid..
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Stupidity
Blatant overreacting based on the superintendents own stupidity.
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Re: Heh..
There is no way this was just a random link the kids were clicking on. They new what they were doing. The last article I read about this said that the students were members of a group on myspace that supported this guy and his opinions on killing this girl. If it were a random link it wouldn't have been 20 kids from the same school and there isn't really a low-tech way that the school would find out who looked at the page. In any case, these kids need to be suspended. Allowing them to support a group like that is the same thing as saying "Hey, you don't like someone. Go join a hate group." Come on now... that's just ridiculous and anyone that says they didn't do anything wrong really needs to take a look at their own morals.
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Re: Heh..
ok, Im a high school senior this year, and you know just what kind of crap gets talked about in school. i know of about 50 kids out of my class of 300 who have done practical jokes, called names, etc. that teachers and parents have gotten them suspended/detentions for. theres one kid in my grade who made a myspace dedicated to proving another kid gay. its all fun and games, and if the kid didnt physically threaten her or anything, he shouldnt be suspended. I havent personally seen the website, but the kid shouldnt be suspended. he should probably get some help, but not suspension.
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Re: Stupidity
Dude, this was a stupid comment... Grow up Bro. They deserve to be suspended as do anyone who threatens the life of any other student. And anyone viewing it who doesn't report it.
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Re: Heh..
"theres one kid in my grade who made a myspace dedicated to proving another kid gay. its all fun and games"
WRONGO BUDDY. That kind of stuff is extreemly hurtful and can scar someone for life. Emotional abuse is just as harmful as physical.
Go get your first job and try calling someone a name or making a MySpace about a co-workers "gayness" and see how fast you get canned.
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Double Standard
I see a double standard here.
In one hand, schools would rather teach kids not to abstain from sex, but rather, how to do it "safely" using condoms, etc.
In the other hand, they want to outright ban MySpace - have kids "abstain" from using it.
Kids will get on MySpace weather schools allow it or not. Shouldn't they be taught how to do it "safely"?
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Re: Suspended?
Since when can a school suspend a student for actions done once the child has arrived at home? If it's done at school, by all means discipline them (and hard).
If the kids were at home doing this, you might as well call the school when your kid doesn't pick up their room. Besides, if the "injured" student has a complaint, their parents can sue.
I think all of this is stupid, sure, but it will be a cold day in hell when the principal of a school dictates what goes on under my roof.
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Gasp!
Wow...hold up. A school has absolutely no right to suspend students for things they do when they get home. They have authority over things that happen at school, the bus stop, and at other school related activities that take place outside of school. But not at home. That is rediculous. The only people who have an authority over what those kids look at on the web is their parents!
And on top of all this, they're gonna charge a middle school kid with hate crime BS just because he wants to blow some chicks face off? WHO DOESN'T WANT TO DO THAT? I can't tell you how many times my girlfriends or just women in general have irritated the crap out of me, and I bet just about every guy here has felt the same at some time or another.
Dear government, if you read this and find that I have said something out of line, sue me, effing liberal stuck-up jackasses.
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Re: Heh..
Theres no point in the school trying to punish kids for what they do on their home computers, not only is it a violation of free SPEECH (as long as its ONLY speech), its just outside the school's jurisdiction. If the kids are doing all of this on home computers and its not connected to the school, than why is the school getting involved? What buisness does it have in private homes? And then theres the free speech aspect. At this point my memory gets shaky, but wasn't there a case in the sixties when a black panther leader said something along the lines of wanting to shoot L.B.J? I seem to remember the outcome of that case being that the statement was protected speech and the black panther got off.
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Re: Stupidity
narc
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No Subject Given
I am the director of tech for an entire school district, and that is what our policy has been on MySpace. I refuse to give in to unsubstantiated paranoia, and encourage the punishment of the ACTION, not the TOOLS USED.
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Re: Heh..
You are a fuckin moron. Hate groups are morally wrong, but are legally supported by our Constitution. We have the freedom of speech. What this kid did was ignorant. I agree, but what he did was not illegal. This country has gotten way to wrapped up in what hurts other people's feelings. You don't like my opinion, fine, disagree with it, don't listen to it, debate it openly. You have that right.
This is yet another case of us wanting our government and our schools to raise our children for us. Parents, take some god damn responsibility for your kids. I have 2 of my own so I speak from experience.
The metality that these kids deserve a suspension from school because they practiced their civil liberties from the privacy of their own homes is the same metality that says it is OK for Bush to wiretap our homes without a court order... And the same metality that got the piece of crap Patriot Act through the senate yesterday.
Do yourselves a favor, read our Constitution, figure out what the framers intended. Freedom is not something to take lightly. Our forefathers fought and died for the rights that these kids were excercising. Allowing these suspensions is like pissing all over the graves of the people who guaranteed us the freedoms that are slowly being taken away from us.
This is our country and we need to get control of it again. It depresses the hell out of me to hear about more and more violations of our liberties every day, and then to see people saying "oh, that's ok... Someone's feelings were hurt so the response MUST have been appropriate. Our government would NEVER lie to us..." Wake up people.
Take a lesson from Iraq, which in the last few months had a HUGE turnout for an election. An election that they ran the risk of being killed for going to... But they still went out and excercised their new found rights! We can't get 50% of our registered voters to the polls with no fear of violence... LET'S GET OUR COUNTRY AND OUR RIGHTS BACK!!!!
If you disagree with any of the opinions in this post, good for you, if any of the opinions hurt your feelings, well, so be it.
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No Subject Given
I hope something like this happens to my kid when I have one. My kid will get a great lesson in litigation when I sue the crap out of the school for suspending them. Sometimes I feel that we, as a society, are the ones to blame for letting shit like this happen.
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Re: Heh..
Here's what it's teaching kids: "Zero tolerance for violence." The modern doctrine that “hate speech”, fisticuffs, knifing, mayhem, murder, and shooting-up the school are all morally equivalent, and are all pretty much sanctioned the same. Defending yourself from a bully is punishable. Boys are tamed with Ritalin… Was a time when the coach took two schoolboys who had a problem into the gym and put the gloves on them. In those days it would have been unthinkable that five foreigners with box cutters could take over a plane full of dozens of American men. Of course racism had something to do with that too.
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Re: Heh..
Maybe the chick needed killing.(joke)
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No Subject Given
Two words to explain all these things people are pointing out: Nanny State. That's what the squeaky wheel wants, and so we get.
I hate it as much as anyone but what can you do when people are going to bleat like sheep when these things happen? It doesn't affect them so they don't care. It's going to take organized resistance to this kind of crap before we start seeing less of it. Welcome to the PC age. Oh and I can't say that I agree on the political points but at least it shows that it doesn't matter what political stripes you wear to be fed up with this kind of stuff.
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Re: Heh..
Somebody needs to suspend/prosecute Alto Hellenbach for his statement on TechDirt... (Another Joke!)
;^)
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Latest MySpace BS in our great state
A few weeks ago a private school (religiously based if that matters) decided to make a new rule BANNING all students of possessing a MySpace account...including at home.
This is intrusive of family privacy and should not be tolerated by the parents, paying good money to send their child to this school.
The first two students were suspended (for two weeks) this week.
Two girls not only were still using their "evil" MySpace account, they had PORN displayed on the site as well.
I'm sure they deserved to be suspended for two weeks for sharing the details of their recent paintball adventures, including a pic of one of the girls in a bikini with her paintball gun (not a revealing pic) with a Victoria's Secret ad that happened to be on the page.
One parent is hiring a lawyer to appeal the schools' decision.
Keep posting the MySpace BS & I'll try to update on the case.
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Re: Heh..
I don't think everyone is viewing the reactions of the school, openly. First as someone already posted there is no way that 20 kids from the same school just clicked on this link. They were told about it and then took it upon themselves to check it out. Also I read another story how those who agreed w/ this kid's post had to list their names to show they agreed w/ him. Second, the school has every right to expell this student for even posting such a thing, plus going back to school and advertising it. For example w/ those 20 kids, if some men were told of a peep hole where they could view a female locker room, then all those men who 'just looked' in the peep hole shouldn't be held accountable, especially since they were told about it prior to looking?? And for the kid to get expelled for posting it at home, so are you saying if the school in Columbine had found out prior to those 2 students going on a rampage then since they had planned everything outside of school the school has no right to punish them?? Open your eyes people!! I do believe this all falls on the parents of these kids and not knowing what goes on when their kids are online. No kid (who isn't willing to be held liable for their actions) shouldn't have a computer in their bedroom. Plain and simple.
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Re: Gasp!
just because he wants to blow some chicks face off? WHO DOESN'T WANT TO DO THAT? I can't tell you how many times my girlfriends or just women in general have irritated the crap out of me,
Umm...I think you have a problem, dude. Seriously, get help. Reading your post scares the hell out of me.
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Re: Heh..
This goes beyond hate, and implies that death threats were uttered. That is a crime called assault, nothing to do with the constitution. Add 20 school mates who are on the same page, and you have mob mentality. This can, has, and will result in extreme consequences. These kids were suspended, not expelled, the least school authorities could do to defuse the situation and protect the life of the target student. Try dwelling on this perspective, and get off your constitutional soap boxes.
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No Subject Given
use some common fucking sense. how would the school know that these 20 kids accessed this particular group? do you think they subpoenaed myspace's usage logs, got an IP address, and then subpoenaed the various ISP's to get customer info and than matched that against student registrations? That just doesn't make sense. Use some critical reading skills.
These kids had to have posted something to this offensive MySpace group to identify themselves. And if their posts were also derogatory and/or dangerous, they should be expelled as well. And creating a harmful environment for a fellow student is a punishable action even if that happens off school property.
Everyone is pointint fingers at lazy parents when they are being just as lazy themselves.
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Re: Gasp!
Funny how you say Effing Liberals, when typically the conservatives would support the expulsion of a student for threatening another student. If anyone, the conservatives would be the ones to sue you... even tho that is far from what will happen because they've got greater issues in this country than some under-educated kid trying to express their limited knowledge about politics.
Liberals would probably support the threats saying its a freedom of speech, when a freedom of speech should never EVER threaten anyone's safety. I think you got your political parties mixed up pal.
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Re: Heh..
There is no way this was just a random link the kids were clicking on. They new what they were doing. The last article I read about this said that the students were members of a group on myspace that supported this guy and his opinions on killing this girl. If it were a random link it wouldn't have been 20 kids from the same school and there isn't really a low-tech way that the school would find out who looked at the page. In any case, these kids need to be suspended. Allowing them to support a group like that is the same thing as saying "Hey, you don't like someone. Go join a hate group." Come on now... that's just ridiculous and anyone that says they didn't do anything wrong really needs to take a look at their own morals
What about freedom of expression andd speech? Just because you dont like what someone says doesn't mean they dont have the right to say it. UNLESS he came right out and threatened her, it is wrong to do anything to him. I am not saying he is right, but he does have the same freedoms as the rest of us.
As for the 20 others, they viewed the site from home... right? Well then school has no right to say ANYTHING. Whats next, getting expelled for shoplifting?
The only ones the blame should fall on are the parents. I love how parents these days blame everything but the way they raise their kids. My parents taught me the difference between right and wrong and punished me when I did something wrong and rewarded me when I was good. Obviously I would rather be rewarded than punished, so I was good. After a while the morals become almost instinct, and you think before doing something "bad".
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Re: No Subject Given
I thought they were all affiliated with a group on MySpace that supported a common perspective - Hating this girl. If you have that many people hating a single girl for some reason, and one of them advocates "blowing her face off with a shotgun" then they should all be punished for the advocation of violence...
I don't have any evidence that these kids didn't post anything hateful, but I am giving them the benifit of the doubt.
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Re: Heh..
This goes beyond hate, and implies that death threats were uttered. That is a crime called assault, nothing to do with the constitution.
Ok if they commited assault (a crime) then they should be arrested or get a restraining order. It should be decided in a court of LAW not by a school. It took place off school grounds. If he threatened her in the school then suspend/expell him. Otherwise it is a matter for the courts.
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the solution
Kids should be banned from using power based technology unless under direct supervision.
No TV, no cell phone, no computer, no internet.
The world would be a better place.
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Re: Heh..
RE: Mike Richard
" 'theres one kid in my grade who made a myspace dedicated to proving another kid gay. its all fun and games'
WRONGO BUDDY. That kind of stuff is extreemly hurtful and can scar someone for life. Emotional abuse is just as harmful as physical.
Go get your first job and try calling someone a name or making a MySpace about a co-workers "gayness" and see how fast you get canned." -Mike
I'm an educated, intelligent individual. I respect people's rights, and I'm tolerant of different lifestyles. While I personally have nothing against homosexuals, I respect the right to make fun of their "gayness". I may think someone ignorant for doing so, but people need to get some fucking backbone and stand up for themselves. We're spoiled and weak, and catering to everyone's emotional frailty is just facilitating it.
You want people to stop calling you a fag so you can stop crying yourself to sleep at night? Grow some metaphorical balls and prove to them that you're not their bitch. The sack might even help you make something of yourself professionally.
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MySpace Teaches Kids to Lie...and You Think That's
Let's face it. The issue with MySpace is that it has DELIBERATELY attracted younger users--specifically targeting and encouraging users who are technically disqualified from using the service BY ITS OWN TERMS OF SERVICE.
(A colateral effect of luring young users is that they don't know how to effectively use the "technology in question." Much like cigarettes, alcohol, sex, driving, etc.)
MySpace is FILLED TO THE BRIM with hundreds of thousands of user profiles which clearly and openly state that the user is in the Xth grade (say 6th, 7th or 8th; thus making the user 11 to 13 years old). Or that reveal the user's true age--not the one they posted in their sign-up. Heck a filter for 99-year-olds would probably expose half a million accounts...
The Terms of Service clearly state: "You further represent and warrant that you are 14 years of age or older..."
Why won't MySpace simply police their site to delete any acount that clearly indicates on its face that it is non-conforming to the terms? A few simple search filters could flag suspect accounts for review.
Who knows, it might actually help teach the kids to be more careful about what they post. Instead, all they taught my 13-year-old daughter was that it was cool to lie (and that they didn't mind if she did--so her parents must be really lame to object).
If I had more disposable income, I would sue MySpace for child enticement or something...they are some sick folk who think anything is okay that makes them money.
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No Subject Given
The moral of this story is if your going to have a MySpace account, LIE about your identity. And also, if your going to surf do it through a proxy.
In other news parents just don't understand.
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Re: Latest MySpace BS in our great state
A few weeks ago a private school (religiously based if that matters) decided to make a new rule BANNING all students of possessing a MySpace account...including at home.
It is a private school. They should be allowed to make any rule they want. The parents should be able to get their money back though becasue I would imagine that this constitutes changing the contract that the parents agreed to to begin with.
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Re: Heh..
If the suspensions were solely based on the assumption that by accepting an invitation to view the myspace page means that the kids supported the page, then it was a wrong decision. With so little understanding of these social networks and even online activity, suspicion is quickly turning into guilt.
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personal experience
I remember last year, before myspace boomed, a group of girls I knew from band/color guard really couldn't stand this one girl Jess [not her real name]. She was annoying, rude, not funny, nosey... I could go on. Two of the girls from the group created a "mini-group" on myspace and invited everyone they knew who didn't like Jess to join it. It, too, had images and posts on wanting to kill the girl. Many were done in paint to show knives, blood, and the beheading of a squirrel (the nickname everyone called her). All of those images were tied into inside jokes nobody knew or could possibly ever understand. That's why Jess overreacted when she saw this group for herself as she explored the myspaces of everyone she knew... and then she brought it to the band director. Admittedly, he and the administration handled this situation appropriately and in a professional manner. The two who started the group were banned from joining the color guard and band organizations for the rest of their high school career. I'm sure there were more punishments (detention, for example), but nothing to the extent of suspension. As for the kids not knowing about the group, I believe. The reason? I was sent an invitation to the group -- admittedly, I didn't like the girl much either. Instead of checking out the group itself and what it was about, I looked at who sent it, recognized the sender as a good friend of mine, and accepted it. It wasn't until the day this situation arose with the officials when I realized what it was I joined. So yeah... there's my two cents.
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censorship
So otherwise the school now has rights to watch what children do in there own home. IF they surfed the site via school that is completely different. But onne not even the government should be able to tell us what to do.
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Offended? Good for you!
If you hate MySpace, good for you. It's your government-given right to be offended and speak out against it. Just because you're offended by something, doesn't mean that it's the government's duty to regulate it.
This somewhat goes along with the "second-hand smoke" topic. Sure, I don't like it when I'm in a restaurant that reeks of smoke. But it's a private establishment. If it bothers me so much, I politely mention to my waiter that it's too much for me, and I'm going to leave. I don't sue them, and I don't contact my state's representative and try to pass legislation banning it.
It's our unalienable right to be offended. Be pissed off! It's good for you! But just because you don't like something (like MySpace), that does not give you the right to prevent others from enjoying it.
I understand that schools and restaurants are different, that one is a public facility and the other is private. But the principle stays the same. You're a school: take some responsibility and teach your kids. Certain parts of history might have offensive content, but we don't just exclude it from our history. We teach the kids that it's wrong.
Teach your kids that talking about blowing someone's brains out is wrong. If they say it in your class, then punish them. Don't sew their lips shut and take away their ability to say it.
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Re: Offended? Good for you!
Simple point that you seem to have missed.
Say there is a private establishment that allows smoking. Fine.
But what do you do when that place decides it can make more money if it lets kids come in and smoke? What do you do when they start encouraging (luring) kids in TO smoke? Hey, it's a private establishment, maybe they even leave packs of cigarettes laying around (they don't "sell" them, they just lay them around and assume no responsibility for who picks them up).
What has fundamentally changed is that perverse business interests are gaining greater and greater DIRECT access to children--and they are luring them into behaviors that may not be good for them long term.
Surprisingly, most people with children get upset with that. Most people without children, however, (or who actually hate children) like it. Either because they don't understand the issue viscerally...or because they only see the issue in how it affects them.
In this case, schools are (awkwardly) trying to stand in for parents. Hopefully, after a company or two go too far, there will be a couple of high profile trials, and we can get this back on track...
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Re: Stupidity
when was the last time you visited a high school? you walk down the hall and you hear every conceivable swear word, some death threats (none of which are serious), and a couple of guys punching each other around (again not serious). whatever schools try and do, this is going to happen. if the school catches them IN SCHOOL doing it, sure they can get in trouble. outside of school THEY HAVE NO JURISDICTION!! while on school grounds they can be punished, once there off, there is nothing that the school can legally do about it. if someone is offended by something that is said outside of school go file a report at the police station. if it happens on the internet, the school again HAS NO JURISDICTION unless the students made/accessed the site during school or on school computers.
the site should be checked, if there is a viable threat to the girl, then they should be punished by the police. the school has no involvement in this matter.
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Re: Offended? Good for you!
eufreka - I agree with a lot of what you say. But based on your comments I was wondering if you believe that kids (say under 14 like the TOS) should not be allowed to create content on the internet?
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Re: Offended? Good for you!
Interesting question...with a complicated answer.
Let's face it: kids are NOT adults. Teenagers are NOT adults. Why do so many of these discussions IGNORE this critical distinction?
Should kids have unsupervised access to the Internet? No.
Should kids have unsupervised ability to create/post content on the Internet? No.
Do you think that a TV crew should have the right to set up a shoot in a local teen hangout; and then conduct a wide ranging, raucous discussion about sexual techniques among teens? One in which they surrepticiously (can't spell) encourage teen audience members to join in, actually enticing them to reveal personal information and potentially embarrassing personal information?
And then the TV show airs on MTV (or even better, pay-per-view). And throughout all of this, no one communicated with the parents. No one got a signed release or other permission, etc.
Guess what. That is exactly what MySpace does. Only they use servers and computers, instead of cameras and TVs. It is the same thing.
Except, MTV would be breaking the law. (Oh wait, technically, I think MySpace is probably breaking the law too. Of course, that's the whole purpose of the "friend" ruse: If the kid thinks they are controlling access to their info; MySpace plans to argue that they aren't "broadcasting" it. But, they are.)
And that is why it will take a few lawsuits (which MySpace will clearly lose in the end) for all this to straighten out.
But they are doing EVIL everyday until they are stopped.
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No Subject Given
I run multiple websites where the difference between "guest" access and "member" access is filling out a simple form. MySpace is no different.
The 14 year old & older restriction is simply to avoid COPPA headaches.
Whoever it was that mentioned using a Proxy (or just simply lie) hit it right on the head. To go into it further, I could be a student and register with another student's information (hell, even post pictures of HIM saying it's me) and by the swift actions of the respective schools, THAT child will be suspended. Clever.
A school can't obtain access to server logs from MySpace (and I highly doubt MySpace would give up that information based on a simple want). They base the user's identity by what's in their posts/profiles/etc. I'm sorry, but other than a student openly admitting (or friends snitching), there's NO way to POSITIVELY identify a student with a user profile in MySpace with the above sources (IF it's accessed from home/other than the school network).
If schools don't want their students accessing MySpace, they can simply have their servers block it (which I'm sure they have, unless their intent is to catch & punish students).
Threats made on MySpace is a completely different ball of wax. If threats against my child were made then you could bet I would have my lawyer all over MySpace as well as the ISP of the source IP.
For those barking freedom of speech, yes and no (mostly no). What you're failing to realize is there's a difference between freedom of speech and slander...I'll let you guess which one teens are doing ;)
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Re: Heh..
I think your forgetting one thing here. As adults, we publicize our thoughts with a foundation of responsibility. These kids obviously don't understand this yet and need to be taught a lesson. That is how they learn there are repercussions to their actions. I guarantee that if I exercise my freedom of speech and put in the local community newspaper that I want to kill someone and am looking for support, the police will come knocking on my door shortly. All of the freedoms granted to us are precious and not an excuse to loose all sense of rationality and make threats. As for the 20 kids that viewed the site, I am guessing they posted comments supporting the threat and that is why they too deserve what they received. And I hope everyone realizes that having kids does not make you an expert in raising them.
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Re: Heh..
I agree with this. Inciting violence is not protected under the Freedom of Speech. Saying that I want to kill someone will get me in big trouble, even if I'm only joking when I say it. (Someone I know threatened to kill me and made several threatening actions toward me last year, and was subsequently punished) Sure I've wanted to kill people before, but you need to keep these feelings to yourself. If they don't disappear in a little while, you need to get help. Myspace is completely stupid, but there's nothing that can be done about it.
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California Education Law
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=edc&group=4 8001-49000&file=48900-48927 [http://www.leginfo.ca.gov]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but how I'm reading this it's pretty clear that legally there's no grounds for him being suspended. In fact, it sounds like it's directly prohibited since it took place off-campus. Also, it wasn't a direct threat, I don't think, but a question posed to the other people participating, so I'm not sure that would fall under (a) in the first place technically.
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Geez...
The parents are questioning the school for suspending the students over something that happened at home? That is the real issue here.
Shouldn't the parents be questioning themselves on how this happened at home? I'd be willing to bet none of them knew about this until the suspensions were issued.
And yes, I realize that being a parent doesn't mean you know how to be a good one, but, c'mon you know the difference between right and wrong. So should your kids. It's really easy to convey.I grew up with an absent father and a working mother so that excuse is out. However, I knew that if I did something wrong, there would be a backhand across some part of my body that I didn't want...how many did I get? Two...one to find out and two to test it to see if it would happen again. I never had to try again after that.
I shudder to think what the punishment for a posting such as this AND a suspension from school would have gotten me. So, that very real promise of punishment has kept me from doing wrong well into adulthood.
To the person who accepted the invitation to a page without ever seeing it-Accepting the invite and actually going to the page and signing your name to a list of people who want to shoot someone are two very different things. They're guilty. Not by assocation but by action.
To the person posting that they "are tolerant" of other lifestyles, that is utter crap. Because if you were you wouldn't be making fun of them. And while you may think it's all fun and games, there's someone out there who doesn't. By posting in a public place that person is made available to harassment by anyone who isn't as "tolerant" as you. So, yeah that's accessory to assault, I would think.
Lastly, to the people screaming about their civil liberties being trampled upon...If it was your kid they were wanting to shoot, what then?
At least the school did SOMETHING to punish these kids although it's doubtful they learned anything from it.
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Re: Geez...
Sorry, I just reread the post from the person invited to join a group that included (doctored) graphic images of a girl being killed, how do you know that if you never went to the site? So you had to have done more than just accept the invitation.
Try to imagine how you would "overreact" if that had been your picture.
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Re: Latest MySpace BS in our great state -You obvi
When you say: A few weeks ago a private school (religiously based if that matters)-
You should realize that it does matter, private schools in general do not come under than same rules, regulations, and government intervention that public schools do.
This is Most Especially true in the case of a "religiously based" school as you put it does mean a lot as these schools operate completely outside of government intervention. Thus, they can make the rules, which public schools cannot.
A few examples would be requiring the proper respectful response to ones teacher, such as, "Yes Sir", "No Sir" etc. Is this a crime against free speech or an attempt to teach a young student respect while living in a world, which becomes a more "amoral" society with each passing day?
Further, before you are allowed to enroll your child in any "faith based" school (that I know of, and my children have attended several, and never a "public" or "secular" system school), you are required during an interview with the headmaster of the school (which is in most cases and extended ministry of the church) to sign a Statement of Faith. In this statement it list all of the schools policy's that are most likely to be at issue and clearly explains the schools approach and what will be expected of the child, and of the parents both at home and at school. So in short, a parent knows the rules and requirements if they choose to send their kids to a faith based private school system which in point of fact, more and more parents are doing so every year.
I can also tell you from many years of experience with my own two daughters, one who is twelve and is finishing her first year in high school in about a month (after skipping the 2nd and 8th grades), and my first born who is twenty-five and finished college two years ago on an academic scholarship after graduating from a Christian school. My point you may ask.
My point is that the positive effects that this "faith based" education had and continues to have on my girls goes so deep that it would be difficult to explain in simplistic terms and even more so to a person not so "faith based" in their thinking or outlook. At first glance, it may seem as if I am referring above to "effects" that are in fact, only faith based, this is not the case at all, if so it would apply to the few and not the many.
I am speaking of things like; respect for your fellow human beings, tolerance, respect,and
confidence tempered with humility and many other like qualities, all of which would generally be agreed upon by most parents and intelligent persons to be highly desirable traits to have instilled into their children.
However, in case I did not make it clear above (this is a small space to type in) none of the positives of a faith based education I refer to are accomplished by simply sending your child to this type of school, the parents must always be the primary key holders in the development and education of their children. Thus the need for like-minded thinking and agreement between these types of schools and the parents. These schools generally refer to this as a partnership of sorts, and if you do not agree, you simply enroll your child somewhere else.
However, it should be noted that ANY private school of ANY type would require you to sign a waiver disallowing you to sue them on grounds relating to their school policy. This is simply more true and also more powerful in the case of the "faith based" school due to the very limited ability of the state or federal governments (and by logical extension the courts) right to intervene in how these schools are run as long as the educational standards meet the minimum set by the state.
Therefore, the people you refer to above who want to "sue" this faith-based school based on a "policy" decision will only succeed in lowering their bank balance while increasing the attorney's balance.
Additionally, and finally, it is almost a certainty that the individuals you mention will not be allowed to re-enter the school system you refer to. This is without a doubt the case if it truly is a "religiously based”, church affiliated school which is what your message implies, and almost a certainty with any private school, as attendance at such a school is a paid for privilege, not a government granted entitlement.
Sincerely,
A Concerned and involved father..
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Re: Heh..- Childrens rights
Theres no point in the school trying to punish kids for what they do on their home computers, not only is it a violation of free SPEECH (as long as its ONLY speech), its just outside the school's jurisdiction. If the kids are doing all of this on home computers and its not connected to the school, than why is the school getting involved? What buisness does it have in private homes? And then theres the free speech aspect
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It seems to me that many people posting here are doing so based on an assumption that "children" have the same "rights" as do responsible adults. Just as in the case where a serious crime is committed by a "child" they are not held to the legal standard as an adult. Therefore a child in school does not enjoy, nor are they entitled to the same "protections" and "rights" as the adult (at least in age) student in college.
Not only did this school have the "right" to take whatever action it deemed appropriate, it had a mandated (by most sane parents) responsibility to take action, and in this case the only logical way to make certain of catching the right "fish" was to cast a wide net. Certainly, given the facts, some were more guilty than others perhaps, but it is just as certain than none were completely innocent either. They all knew they were not in the "right" as measured by any societal standard.
A Concerned and involved father..
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Re: Heh..
Here's what it's teaching kids: "Zero tolerance for violence." The modern doctrine that “hate speech”, fisticuffs, knifing, mayhem, murder, and shooting-up the school are all morally equivalent, and are all pretty much sanctioned the same. Defending yourself from a bully is punishable. Boys are tamed with Ritalin… Was a time when the coach took two schoolboys who had a problem into the gym and put the gloves on them.
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Reply-
Wow, up until that last part of your post, you made a frighteningly truthful (albeit colorful) observation. In a nutshell, if you are saying "America is not what it used to be" you are so unfortunately correct in your observation.
TMS
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Re: California Education Law
Okay, your wrong.
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Re: Offended? Good for you!
Offended? Good for you!
by Justin Martin on Saturday March 04, @12:27
If you hate MySpace, good for you.
__________________________________________
Sir, you are in need of a reality check, please make an appointment now.
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Re: Heh..
When I was 13 and in 8th grade, there were lots of kids at school I wanted to see die a horrible death. I had a girl threaten to kill me in school because she thought a friend of mine was trying to steal her boyfriend. My friend told more than one teacher yet nothing was done. We were threatened and "mildly" physically assulted daily by this MUCH larger girl and her friends. I ended up bringing a knife to school for protection. I told her to stay away from me because I had a knife. She "told on me" and I got suspended for a week. She was never punished.
After that incident I prayed for her death. I wrote "Death to Jennifer" (and much much worse) on scrap paper AT HOME while doing homework. I day dreamed about taking a gun to school and shooting her in the head. I told all my friends why I hated her and wanted her dead and they agreed with me. I had heard that mixing certain household cleaning products could create a deadly result. I wrote in my journal that I wanted to put those chemicals in her locker. I had NO intention of actually doing those things but I never stated that in my private journal. Are you saying that if you found my journal and read it, I should be punished?? Was it my mom's fault for not supervising me when I was holding a pen?
All those things were privately written or kept within my circle of friends. This was back in the days before the internet. What we did have was pen and paper. If I had made a sign saying I wanted to kill my classmate and then taped it to a wall in a publically viewed area, I think I'd probably get in trouble. I understood that then, that's why I never did it. Do kids not understand that a public post on the internet is the same?
Blog sites like Myspace have been around for years. I've come across blogs written by teens who've expressed hatred for kids in school before. The only difference being that it wasn't part of a wildly popular website that "everyone" was member of. Posting and blogs used to be somewhat more anonymous. Maybe it's just that people, especially kids, used to have more self control for fear of being punished for their actions. They're seeing how far they can go with the internet and I'm not surprised.
No one was prepared for this problem. The courts, parents and the schools should work together in dealing with this situation. We encourage kids to tell a trusted adult, sometimes a teacher or guidance counseler, when there's abuse in the home. Should teachers now ignore the problem since it's not happening on school grounds? It's acceptable for the school to get involved if a student is feeling unsafe in any environment. Though their involvement should be somewhat limited when the "crime" is committed off school property. The internet is not school property. Punish the kids if they use the school computers for this stuff. Let the parents punish them at home. The courts can take over where parents leave off.
You can't always blame the parents either. If I were a teen and I wanted a Myspace account there would be no way for my mom to stop me! Just like there was no way for her to keep me from trying cigarettes, alcohol or sex. A kid without a computer can always use one that belongs to a friend. Public internet cafes are everywhere.
It seems that the blame may have to fall on the website itself. There are ways to try to keep underage users off certain websites. Having to enter credit card info for proof of age is one. Kids will still find ways around that. It really seems like there is no solution other than to have 24hr monitoring of all Myspace accounts that seem to belong to someone underage. Only Myspace itself can do that. If that doesn't work then I guess we have to start cutting fingers off kids.
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Re: Heh..by OSB at 2006-03-10 04:23:29
You say:
Are you saying that if you found my journal and read it, I should be punished?? Was it my mom's fault for not supervising me when I was holding a pen?
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My Reply:
Nice post, and good questions proposed for analogy.
I only wish I had the time tonight to reply in detail to your post. I think that you have brought up some very valid points, and also ones which have the possibility of taking this discussion to the next level.
I hope the interest is there.
I will reply at length tomorrow if anyone is interested.
TMS
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Re: Heh..by OSB at 2006-03-10 04:23:29
You say:
Are you saying that if you found my journal and read it, I should be punished?? Was it my mom's fault for not supervising me when I was holding a pen?
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My Reply:
Nice post, and good questions proposed for analogy.
I only wish I had the time tonight to reply in detail to your post. I think that you have brought up some very valid points, and also ones which have the possibility of taking this discussion to the next level.
I hope the interest is there.
I will reply at length tomorrow if anyone is interested.
TMS
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Re: Re: Offended? Good for you! AMEN!
Amen, brother.
You have hit the target in many areas of your post and I enjoyed reading it.
Thank you for your time,
TMS
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Re: Re: Heh..by OSB at 2006-03-10 04:23:29
An ex- friend of my daughter's posted a Myspace "blog" using my daughter's identity that contained extremely slanderous and defaming material, and sent out invitations to all of my daughters friends and her own and GOD KNOWS who else. The girl is over 18 now and has been performing hateful actions for years towards my daughter. I am looking into legal action against the ex-friend, NOT Myspace. Myspace is not the culprit but the catalyst. They need to see about "police"ing up their site..true...but it about the individual acts not the availability to act. If someone alterd a photo that made me look like I was doing something wrong I would not accuse the camera company or Photoshop...although they were the catalyst...Go after the criminal!
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myspace
as a parent in todays world who wishes there were a handbook about how to use and discipline the uses and abuses of todays technology, I just want to remind all of you who are not parents or guardians that someday you will be.... and if you don't start monitoring yourselves and questioning the abuses that myspace can encourage YOU will become one of us very soon. Scared that it is a pedophiles playground, where HATE becomes the norm not the exception, when all of your spare time will be monitoring your childs interests to the point when you wish someone would pull the plug. Remember internet use is a privilege, not a god given right, and if you all don't start making changes soon, those of us who vote and pay taxes and pay for the access will lobby whoever we have to to shut it down. Also remember.. just because you can ( freedom of speech etc) doesn't mean you should. Use your heads.
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its addictiong but safe
myspace is addicting because i used to have one but not safe either. i deleted mine but my friens don't think smart and don't delete theirs either. Recently about 4 people were raped and bad language and porn is on the website. we should sue Myspace!
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Re: Gasp!
i think you are totally wrong we should sue myspace not put kids in danger, even if you are 20 or 30 you are still a child.
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Re: myspace - Sandy
You say:
and if you don't start monitoring yourselves and questioning the abuses that myspace can encourage YOU will become one of us very soon.
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Reply:
You are absolutely correct as any remotely experienced or caring parent well knows. However-
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You say:
Remember internet use is a privilege, not a god given right, and if you all don't start making changes soon, those of us who vote and pay taxes and pay for the access will lobby whoever we have to shut it down. Also remember.. just because you can ( freedom of speech etc) doesn't mean you should. Use your heads.
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This will never happen, nor should it. There is far more good to be gained from the technology that is the "web". I give this opinion as one who is the father of two daughters.
I have also used the internet before it was the "net" or the "web". At this time it served a very limited function, now it is providing learning and experiences to people around the world and in severely oppressed counties (think China). Further my children use it daily in furthering their educational reach while one is attending a "virtual" high school.
Unfortunately, the internet now is as a world unto itself, with a life of it's own, and it is far to late to put the genie back into the bottle. It is true that there is a great deal of all types of evil and evil people exist on the internet, and on a global scale, just as they do in the world at large. Evil will always exist, the sooner one comes to terms with this the more prepared and informed a parent or person/child to deal with it and the world. But it must be taught on your terms (the parent or guardian), not the worlds.
However, realistically, the percentage of bad vs. good on the internet is simply becoming closer and closer to reflecting the world which spawned it into existence.
My youngest daughter (13 yrs. old) has had her own computer and access since she was about 4 years old. I have always taught her about the realities of the world online as well as off. I admit that I use a hardware firewall around our house and every site which is visited is logged and sent to my unit nightly, and I have never had cause to use any kind of filtering software, or channel blocks etc. on her television or control the music she listens to.
What have I done? Firstly, I have always sent her to a private Christian school. Further, I personally, have taken her to church every week, she has no memory of church not being a part of her life. This builds a strong moral foundation and understanding of right/wrong and good/evil. I would like to go on a tell you what great human beings they are. However, this would be outside the thread. However, to Sandy I must say, the reality is your going to need some help, and the very best help of the highest order is Divine in His nature. I am not saying any of this because I am a religious fanatic of any sort, in fact,
quite the opposite., I am a struggling Christian. Father. In short what I am saying is that if you want your children to grown up to be well adjusted adults contributing to society in meaningful way. Then you as the Parent, must step up to the plate and try (through you will always be short) to be the kind of human being you would like your children to be. Make yourself their role models, it is a tough job, but if you are a parent, it is your job.
Note:
This post is solely my own opinion and is not meant to offend anyone or their beliefs in any way. Rather this is simply a short statement of one fathers experience and the solutions that was provided to him.
Thank you,
TMS
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Re: Re: Stupidity
Yo shutup your mad stupid becuase no one really threatens peoples lives why dont you grow up and go else where than this blog.....? And no one deserves to be suspended for something they did outside of school! i will view whatever the heck i wanna but im not going to snitch becuz most of the stuff isnt even that serious dude get serious!
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Re: Re: Heh..
No not wrong if you get easily hurt by what others say to you especially fellow classmates or co workers then you need help.....
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Re: No Subject Given
That'z definitely right i would tie their family up in so much litigation that their great grandchildren are gunna need lawyers! hehe
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Re: Re: Heh..
EHM NOOOO NOOOO THE SCHOOL DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO USE EXPULSION ON A KID BECAUSE OF SOMETHING THEY DO OUTSIDE OF SCHOOL!!!! READ THE FREAKING RULE BOOKS!!!!! THEIR PARENTS ARE THE ONLY ONES WITH THE RIGHT TO DO ANYTHING TO THEM!!! UHMM DUHHHH! THE PEOPLE CAN SUE BUT YOU CAN'T USE EXPULSION!
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Re: the solution
Yo dude you can kiss my a** with that s*** thatz straight BS i know you wouldnt want someone watching over you(if you were a child) listening to your conversations....
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What are these people talking about and in what la
I have tried, really tried. However, I have been unable to see anything which post 61-65 adds to this discussion. In fact, I cannot even tell what language they are speaking.
Add something to the discussion and exchange of ideas by all means, but please do in at least reasonably good English. The reference to obscene words and phrases is hardly subtle either.
Maybe they are lost on the way to MySpaces, where they can most likely be understood. The only other explanation is it is a poor attempt at a tasteless joke.
TMS
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i think myspace is a waste of time
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i think myspace is a waste of time
i used to have a myspace