Grokster's Impact On File Sharing? Uh… Not Much
from the oh-well dept
A year ago, when the Supreme Court came out with its decision on the Grokster case, the industry immediately declared victory. Andrew Lack (famous for lots of other misstatements) declared that, in the wake of the decision: “We will no longer have to compete with thieves in the night whose businesses are built on larceny.” Beyond totally misunderstanding the nature of file sharing, he was also completely wrong (perhaps that’s why he’s no longer an executive at Sony). New studies show that file sharing has continued to grow, despite the Grokster case. While the industry has tried to pretend the Grokster decision said stuff it didn’t, it still hasn’t been able to do anything to curb file sharing (despite claims to the contrary). Instead of this ongoing denial, isn’t it about time that the industry admitted that their strategy has not worked? There are other options out there that don’t involve treating all your customers like criminals. Perhaps it’s time for the record labels to try a few out.
Comments on “Grokster's Impact On File Sharing? Uh… Not Much”
yeah right, and pigs might fly.
it isnt going to happen, they are so scared to try anything new that it will take quite an event to get them to change.
first 🙂
Grokster Case
I agee that it is well past time that the RIAA should persue it ‘s treating customers like criminals. This along with DRM and sofware(and genes)patents are resticting ‘fair use”, innovation and a few other things.We can only hope that either they wise up or some legal case strikes down the silliness.
if the riaa hasn’t changed its ways by now, it never will. they’re kinda like your friends dumbass little brother who gets to tag along per your friends moms orders. mom (gov’t) won’t make him cut it the fuck out, no matter how annoying he gets, no matter how much he gets in the way. so what do you do? you punch him in the face when he gets out of line. how do you hit the riaa in the face? sue THEM before they sue you. i can’t wait until i see the first suit brought against them by someone who’s afraid to use the internet because they think they’ll go to jail or some shit like that. just wait, it’ll happen. after all, this IS america.
oh and i’ll continue to download movies and music without paying for it. if i like a band, i go to their shows and buy their t-shirts. if i like a movie, i buy it on dvd. if a band or movie is shit, whelp, free enterprise and the risk that goes with it in combination with this fancy digital millenium is a fuckin’ bitch, huh?
Re: Sue the RIAA
Let’s sue the RIAA for years of putting out $15-$20 CDs with only one or two, three if we’re lucky, good songs on a CD that costs $15-$20.
Then there’s also CDs that I didn’t buy because of the songs that are actually played on air that I didn’t like, but it turned out that I actually liked the “B” sides that didn’t get airplay better than the songs that got all the airplay. Then I went and bought those CDs that I wouldn’t have normally bought.
Give us a way to preview (more than 30 secs of a track) before we buy a whole CD. Maybe even be able to download an entire song or CD that will only play once until you buy it. I’ve bought music that I never would have bought had I not had a chance to listen to some more tracks on the CD.
Also, there is rare music that I have found and enjoyed and can’t find anywhere to buy, even as imports…believe it or not it’s the music that can’t be bought or otherwise found anymore, that I want to be able to download…I don’t want to steal from anyone…I just want more music freedom than having to listen to mass, overproduced music and the same song over and over again on the radio.
Re: Sue the RIAA
Let’s sue the RIAA for years of putting out $15-$20 CDs with only one or two, three if we’re lucky, good songs on a CD that costs $15-$20.
Then there’s also CDs that I didn’t buy because of the songs that are actually played on air that I didn’t like, but it turned out that I actually liked the “B” sides that didn’t get airplay better than the songs that got all the airplay. Then I went and bought those CDs that I wouldn’t have normally bought.
Give us a way to preview (more than 30 secs of a track) before we buy a whole CD. Maybe even be able to download an entire song or CD that will only play once until you buy it. I’ve bought music that I never would have bought had I not had a chance to listen to some more tracks on the CD.
Also, there is rare music that I have found and enjoyed and can’t find anywhere to buy, even as imports…believe it or not it’s the music that can’t be bought or otherwise found anymore, that I want to be able to download…I don’t want to steal from anyone…I just want more music freedom than having to listen to mass, overproduced music and the same song over and over again on the radio.
AHAHAHAHAH Grokster….what a joke…..bittorrent rocks…
Bittorrents
Yeah, bittorrents seem to be gaining is popularity for awhile now. THe napster age is seemingly over. Pirate Bay and TorrentSpy seem to be the best way to go. You may have to wiat a bit longer but overall I like it. Go Bittorrents!!
MININOVA 4EVAR
Re: Re:
suprnova and mircx were better
Bittorrent noobs.. sigh..
Re: NOOBS?
and you think you are a god with what?
so you wouldnt mind doing some educating then?
Since the internet has produced many venues for unsigned artists to showcase their music, I have discovered tons of talented artists that I woukld never have had the opportunity to hear. The music industry has kept so many more talented people from getting exposure than they have broken.
It is about time that the public showed the industry that the crap they force feed us just ain’t worth paying for!
meh
bitorrent is ok, but i have to say i much prefer http, and even(gasp!) chock up $9 or so a month for rapidshare…why? 2 gigs a day is why, and at full speed(ie:800kbps a file…), plus if you dont download something, well lets say i have 15 gigs of stuff to download today, however while im a pirate from hell, if a program ive seen is worth buying, then i support the devlopers with a smile, and same goes for everything including music, i bought 3dsmax 8 and photoshop cs2, ya i had used the cracked versions, but i liked the job they did so i bought the programs to support development, hey any suing company want us to buy it? MAKE IT WORTH IT. also dont bother adding drm, all you do is make a fool out of yourself in front of the general population
drm
If you dont lock your shit people will take it.
I say use DRM go for it, not going to stop people from putting music on their computers.
If people cant try your stuff for free what makes you think they will buy your $79 shit without knowing if its good or not?
Locking software and music files only makes it harder for the honest and the ignorant.
For unrippable music I only have two words “Loopback recording”.
One last thing for software developors, “If I cant try it I dont buy it”.
Imagine if you had to buy a car without a testdrive or a house without ever looking at the inside or the foundation, to me its all the same.
Record companies...
They should really stop trying to sue everyone who downloads music! They’re never going to get everyone who downloads music illegally, and they should give up.
The problem is that convincing the likes of RIAA that neoclassicism is dead is like trying to convince communisim that its not working …. hang on now that I think about it quite a few communist countries did have that epiphony….
The thing that bothers me most, is that I see suing individuals as the proof of market failure, and the natural step for a neoclassicist in the face of market failure is compulsory licensing…… so why arent we there yet? What more proof do you need? Tired old men run the world and tired old men run record labels and the rest of us have to suffer cos they cant get with the times.
Human beings prefer common sense to logic.
Human beings prefer common sense to logic.
Common sense says that stopping people from being able to ‘steal’ your product will increase sales.
Logic says that the ‘theft’ of the product can actually help in promoting it and therefore increase sales.
People don’t like ideas that are too complex. eg. There was a 80% reduction in heroin use in zurich since it was legalised, common sense says there should have been an increase.
Just let it go...
We all know Dumb and Dumber suck at everything they do. There’s no need to have stories every other day to illustrate this. It’s a bit like a bee stinging its attacker. A last effort, even though it’s killing itself. We’ll soon be rid of the tyrany and evilness of the Industries.
RIAA sucks
you know what they say….
locks only keep honest people out….
DRM and so called “copyright protection” only hurts regular consumers who wants to use the music on their terms…
aren’t we paid for the the music and not be locked out whether i use pc or portable player or make mixed cd?
not to mention DVD-A and HD-CD could have taken music further to curb copyright violation and higher quality audio but because of the format war, the next generation audio never came to be….
VHS is replaced by DVD but cd audio is still here…
what a joke….
Re: RIAA sucks
“VHS is replaced by DVD but cd audio is still here..”
If I remember right, I think CD’s replaced cassetes, about the same time DVD’s were introduced. VHS:DVD::Audio Cassete:CD
smirk
stories like this do little more than give me a little smirk on my face. I’m too busy sorting my recently downloaded music to really care all that much about the RIAA, publicly issued statements, or anything the like anymore.
Thieves
Well, I think the bulk of people that download movies and music ARE thieves. I hear all this talk about people just “trying” the music or movie first and they buy it if they like it, but it’s rubbish – most of them continue to listen to the music and never buy the CD.
I have been guilty of this in the past too – but I think people should just grow up and take responsibility for their actions.
Re: Thieves
Your post finally showed me the error of my ways. I’m not going to buy just some of my music from now on. I’m going to steal all of it.
Re: Thieves
we’re not thieves, we’re customers – I for one would be more than willing to pay a flat compulsory fee to download whatever I wanted, and then buy the DRM free CD if I like it, they can make money out of this – its not as if there arent other options than suing 12 year old girls
d/heads
Who should protect the right of artists?
File sharing is here to stay. They can try and sue some people here and there (US, EU…etc)…but in the end, new groups of people will join forces and start sharing.
I kind of agree that those who share are nothing but thieves, but simply seeing them as normal thieves is not just.
Coroprations make artists sign contracts in their favour, and…believe or not…they would own the rights to the artist(s) work….and common sense say that the owner should be the artist.
It is time that people start
looking at this issue from other angles…and not just blame those who share on the net (Yes, they should be blamed…but others should be also).
If the argument was based on protecting artistic work…or the interest of artists…and not corporate interest, I would be 100% supportive.
“If the argument was based on protecting artistic work…or the interest of artists…and not corporate interest, I would be 100% supportive.”
Same here – if i thought that by buying a CD i was actually supporting the artist i’d be all for it but the majority see very little of the £15 i’d hand over to the shop assistant for a CD and what they do see of it they probably dont really need now anyway!
Perfect example – richard ashcroft encouraged EVERYONE at his gig to go download ALL his albums rather then buy them and then to give the money they saved to charity!
If you go to his “official” web forum (run by the record company NOT but the man himself) they have distanced themselves from his comments and still say sharing online is illegal !!
It’s his work – if he wants us to hear it for free and make a charitable donation instead then surely its his right to allow us to do so and against any rights the record company have as his promoter to disagree with his views. Instead they just opt for the money grabbing option and ban anyone who attempts to share either bootlegs or commercially available material on the site.
artists kept in the dark ages.
Are the RIAA or recoding labels preventing the mainstream bands from selling their music directly on their own site?
As a consumer, I would prefer to pay the artist directly and download it from them. If the group wants or needs promoting then they can work it out with the label.
One of the great things about the web is cutting out the middle-man. Frankly, if I know of a band and like their music then why should I pay for innumerable posters and other advertising that I will never see and don’t care about.
I like the shareware try before you buy model and long for the day I can buy directly from an artist after listening to an album (even if it is restricted to streaming low quality). I don’t see any value in supporting the labels/distributors/record stores and I see even less value in the likes of iTunes and other online freeloading middlemen.
A few years backI didn’t really listen to music. I wouldn’t turn a radio off if it was on but I wouldn’t turn it on myself, that was as much as I listened to music. Then a friend gave me some mp3’s of a band he liked and I liked them and as a direct result I have ended up buying 2 albums and a mp3 player. Not much difference you might say but I’d have to dissagree, concidering the 0 before this illegal file sharing directly resulted in an infinate increase of my music purchases.
Recently I have downloaded a program called Music IP Mixer (legally) which creates playlists based off what is similar to a song you selected. This makes it easier to sort music to find stuff you might like but to do this you need the music to sort. To get this I copied 19gb of random music off friends computers. Thats 3005 songs or 1.6 weeks worth, or acording to the RIAA as I-Tunes mp3’s approximately $3000 USD, or about $9000 as cd’s. They would claim this as lost proffit but they must be crazy to think i’d pay that much to find music that I might like, expecially considering I won’t listen to most of it.
If the RIAA got their wishes I would never have ended up buying any music at all but since getting all of that i’m allready concidering buying albums from another artist. Not much perhaps but again still infinately bigger than nothing at all.
Now I just have to hope that if the RIAA by some fluke read this then they don’t supena techdirt for my IP address. But I can garentee that if they do I will make sure never to buy any RIAA music ever again.
Which do you prefer RIAA, a possible customer or a lifelong enemy?
the riaa seems to have stemmed the tide
i read both articles, and i dont think its easy to know one way or another whether their strategy has worked to limit file sharing. though of course, techdirt’s bias against nearly any kind of copy protection leads them to believe it hasn’t and that file sharing remains as rampant as ever. Because the activity is mostly underground, it’s a tough thing to track, and it’d very tought o determine whether there’s more people using the sites or just the same people using it more.
But what is not disputable is that there is now a fairly nice-size online music business that didnt use to exist, and if they can keep file sharing relegated to younger consumers with limited income or deluded techies who try to justify unethical behavior by any means necessary, then the industry’s legal scare tactics have worked.
Digital Jiihaad!!!
I have an answer: HACK THE RIAA!!!
What if everyone just happenned to try to view there website at the same time on one particular day???
I say we all should log on to their servers and keep refreshing our pages and surfing their sites for an hour every time someone is penalized for file sharing.
Could their servers handle the capacity, or would they crumble???
IF WE ALL WORKED TOGETHER WE COULD MAKE THEM SO SCARED OF THE INTERNET AND US (THE CRIMINALS THEY WANT TO PAY INTO THEIR EXTORSION) THAT THEY’LL AT LEAST BEGIN TO THINK ABOUT CHANGING THEIR TUNE!!!
REVOLUTION!!!
Got packets?
Re: Digital Jiihaad!!!
You dumbshit, do you think the RIAA gives a damn about their web servers. They could shut their web servers off and it won’t make a world of difference because they keep, (like any other company whos revenue isn’t based off internet sales), their important services running on seperate servers.
Companies aren’t as retarded as you and I would like them to be. Next time you would like to make a contribution, maybe you should at least know something about designing a network.
Grammar police...
And yes, I made several errors in spelling and grammar in my previous post.
But who really gives a sh1t anyways?
WE LIVE IN AMERICA – A SEWER PIPE CLOGGED WITH COMPLACENT TURDS!!!
Feel free to sh1t all over me and my posts.
You have the right. Exercise it!
I wonder...
what the RIAA thinks about musicians that sell their music online and eliminate the middleman. This would allow the artist to have more control over their own distribution and to take in more profit since they’d only be paying a small team of web developers that actually come to work and bust their asses from 9am-5pm. Its a whole lot better than signing a contract with some big suit exec that gets paid almost 6 digits/yr. to sit in board meeetings and figure out how to spend all the money its sucking out the artists and the public.
It's not just the RIAA
I’ve noticed the common consumer being treated like a criminal more and more each day. I don’t know about other places, but here in Salt Lake City, all the gas stations are moving to a pay before you pump model. Before you could pump gas, then walk inside, maybe buy a drink, and then pay. Now you have to go inside, guess how much gas you might pump, pay for it, and then go outside and pump. Heaven forbid you guess wrong.
Re: It's not just the RIAA
Well here in New York we’ve had to pay before you pump for a long time… Here is an easy solution…. Debit/Credit Card.
Commercial music is so.... regurgitated
I hated listening to commercial radio because it was like they only own 5 CD’s, and they only play two or three songs from each CD – over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. In fact, I haven’t listened to commercial radio since 2003. I’ve been listening to Internet radio.
I’ve discovered so many new kinds of music, so many new artists. I discovered a music service called artistdirect.com, and another one called magnatune.com. Those are the only two sites I know about (I’m sure there are other sites like them), but they have music from artists I’ve never heard of before, and the artists get a decent share of the sales made through those services. The way the Big Recording companies are treating customers…. I could never bring myself to do business with them – ever.
I use BitTornado to download Anime. Those are usually in Japanese and are fansubbed (English subtitles applied by fans of Japanese Anime). These Anime are usually not licensed for sale in the U.S., but if I really liked an Anime, I buy it when – IF – it get’s licensed for sale in the U.S.
How about...
The best idea would be to download the music, and write a check out to the artists themselves ;). Make the artists happier and the RIAA even more furious. Sounds like fun.
Tail wagging the dog
People focus on the sexyness of filesharing, but the sea change underway in the music business goes much deeper. The big labels became so important because they held the keys to the expensive recording kingdom, and they had the relationships with retailers and radio. But now things are being turned on their head and the long tail is beginning to wag the dog.
The lowered cost of digital recording gear means you can record an album for a few grand (a fraction of what it used to cost). Radio, thanks to narrowly focussed playlists and in-car cellphone usage, is increasingly ceding the “taste making” promotional crown to niche digital outlets like PureVolume and blogs, and social networking sites like MySpace and OneBigMix (shameless plug).
What is the effect on fans now that the main touchpoints of the music business (production, promotion, distribution) are less and less under the control of a few companies with limited artist rosters? I think we’re likely to see more sales parity. People will spend money for music (cds, downloads, merchandise, tickets, etc), but now that they have more choices, they’ll spend less on a few “superstars” and more on the previously unknown, talented musicians.
In fact, as people discover new artists that would previously have been locked out of the “big label” machine, the overall size of the music market could actually grow — more cds/downloads, more tickets, more merchandise, etc. People will be exposed to more music that they are willing to pay for — music they never would have been exposed to ten years ago. The smart label executive must figure out how to sell the music experience, in it’s many forms, not just a round 120mm plastic disc.
The problem, from the RIAA label’s point of view, is deeper than filesharing. But, as they say in journalism circles, “if it bleeds it leads”.
Re: Tail wagging the dog
anything that cuts down on the dollars that Brittany Spears makes is fine by me ….
Local band getting nothing.
My roommate is a drummer with a local band. He has lots of other music friends that stop by now and again and I recently had the pleasure of meeting one that has become quite popular with a song on the radio and CDs for sale accross the country in media stores and on the internet. I asked him, when he was over, if he could get a CD for me, he looked at me and said “you know computers? Download it for free, I don’t make a single penny off of the sales of our CD’s.” That changed my whole mind about downloading music. I will start buying CD’s when they can prove to me that the money from the CD gets turned in to food and income for the artist, otherwise I will download all I want. F-you RIAA!
Grokester? What about Borders?
They’re worried about filesharing and all you have to do is go to your local Borders Books and Music, purchase CDs or DVDs, copy them, then bring them back and whine unti the manager says that s/he’ll give you a refund “just this time”. What a joke.
bro i dont think anyone cares about file sharing……cause its part of everyone’s life. i bet there new strat is ganna be file sharing promotes porn for kids and shit like that
Industry has moved on...
..to deal with the real threat, services like iTunes. Nobody cares about downloading pirated stuff when a company like Apple controls 80+ percent of the digital media market. The pirates are not making any money…..Apple is. 😉
how true
we’re most certainly not thieves i would be happy to purchase the disc if it were cheaper becuase they charge nealy 20 bucks for a single cd. and besides its not like the record companies arent earning from file sharing. every cd that comes out of the shop has a fee on it that goes to the record comapnies.
42nd 🙂
Defining the cost of a CD...
http://www.riaa.com/news/marketingdata/cost.asp
Sounds like they’re trying to say that we’re still not paying enough yet…
I’m glad I listen to drum and bass. Smaller, indepependant labels generally have a better habit of getting money to the artists.
I have no problems with legitimate downloading. I just don’t want ot put 5 different families’ kids through college every time I buy a new song from iCroons…
😛
Enough said.
If the RIAA cannot recover the cost of producing CDs, they should think about outsourcing both the production and their executives overseas!
Off topic but this is exactly why techdirt is a failure of a web site. Closed for the 4 day weekend?.
Bookmark deleted.
What's wrong with a 4 day weekend?
I don’t work for Techdirt, and I took a four day weekend. I’ve enjoyed every bit of it too! Why can’t they have a four day weekend? Is there some kind of Constitutionally mandated requirement that mandates that journalists can’t enjoy a four day weekend?
Did you have a four day weekend? Do you wish you could have a four day weekend?
I’ll bet a whole crap load of people who visit Techdirt, had for day weekends.
In anycase, go and pop some fireworks. It’s fun, and it releaves stress.
what 4 day weekend. i had one day off. the fourth.
what 4 day weekend. i had one day off. the fourth.
Thieves
@#39: I wasn’t trying to change anybody’s ways. I just wish everybody would stop whining about people protecting their property. If you disagree with the way they run things, then fine, don’t support them. But people shouldn’t pretend that since they disagree with somebody else’s politics that they can then break the law against them. I may think that people who sell cigarettes are profitting from other people’s addiction and that this is wrong, but it doesn’t mean that it’s okay for me to go and burn his crops and steal his cars. What I will do is not buy their cigarettes and I will encourage others not to smoke either.