If At First Your DRM Doesn't Succeed, Try, Try Again
from the try-fail-repeat dept
The world’s largest DVD manufacturer is bragging that a new RFID-based solution for DVDs will stop piracy and copying — ignoring the fact that the list of DRM technologies people haven’t been able to break or circumvent is pretty short. The company says that new Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players will check the tags, and refuse to play discs that don’t match the players’ geographic region setting. Sound familiar? That’s because current DVD players have a similar sort of region encoding, which — surprise surprise — is pretty easily circumvented by a number of means. What’s a little more striking is that the company isn’t concerned about the impact this will have on its sales, as consumers won’t particularly enjoy being asked to pay more for new products with which they can do less than existing ones. Why should they shell out for products that offer content providers more ways to restrict what they can do? Compare this to companies that do good business in selling DVD players based on their region-free status, or because they can be easily modified to play discs from anywhere in the world: people buy their products because they allow them to do more than similar, but locked down, ones. All this effort at coming up with new DRM isn’t just a bad business decision, it’s also an exercise in futility, as a single hacker is proving to Microsoft by continuing to break its PlaysForSure DRM as the company tries to patch it. It should also be noted that region-restricting DVDs doesn’t have a whole lot to do with piracy (what pirate would bother to include such DRM on their product, thereby limiting their potential market?), it’s about stifling the export of DVDs from one area to another. This lets movie studios better control prices around the world, by making it slightly more difficult — but not impossible — for consumers to play out-of-region DVDs. But movie studios and other content providers don’t want to face up to the fact that it’s consumers’ dissatisfaction with their business models that leads them to try to find products at lower prices. After all, why confront the truth when it’s so much easier to paint it as a technology problem, and just order up yet another form of DRM?
Comments on “If At First Your DRM Doesn't Succeed, Try, Try Again”
Well of course...
…and the sooner people hurt them buy NOT buying the product, perhaps the sooner they will learn.
Re: Well of course...
Nail….head. Exactly.
Quit buying their wares and we can stop this DRM shit in its tracks. Problem is most people – at least here in the U.S. – have become too lazy and stupid to think for themselves.
Region Coding is the devil, and if it gets any tougher than a DVD player now – I won’t be switching.
The UK prices are absurd, have crappier extras and a bunch of other faults … lets also not forget, some US shows never make UK DVD – what should I do then? NOT PAY THE STUDIO FOR THEIR DVD? Sounds like a smart plan for them 🙂
playing chicken with a train
media companies are paying money to develop and ship technologies that will be defeated by the community in little time for free. it’s like throwing money out the window.
fighting time and talent with money is stupid, time and talent are infinite… money is not.
that is why, in the DMCA, circumvention is illegal. they know the technology doesn’t work… what they don’t know is that the law doesn’t work either.
that’s like using a padlock that’s made of glass to lock your front door, and then telling your family “sleep tight kids, breaking that lock is illegal!”
nail.. head's over there
the solution isn’t to not buy their wares.. not buying means lost sales.. lost sales means they blame it on piracy and try to implement more DRM.
we have to accept that nothing will change their view.
The solution is to quit pirating. No matter how much people argue that DRM is wrong, so is pirating.
If you didn’t pirate, they wouldn’t be going crazy about piracy.
The only way to make DRM go away is to make it not needed… and the only way to do that is to buy your music and DVDs.
Re: nail.. head's over there
thats so incredibly naive
Re: nail.. head's over there
Lost sales means hopefully they’ll go out of business and be replaced by sensible people who aren’t stupid control freaks and try to sell what the consumer wants instead of trying everything to keep prices inflated.
Did you know how big music distributors fought piracy in hevily-pirating countries such as Indonesia ? No DRM, no rootkit. They divided the price of CDs py 5. And still made money out of it.
Anyway, region coding has nothing to do with piracy and everything with price control, and DRM + RFID = evil + more evil.
Re: nail.. head's over there
The solution is to quit pirating. No matter how much people argue that DRM is wrong, so is pirating.
And if we do that the industries will claim “victory over piracy.” That wouldn’t be a problem by iteslf the problem is when the continue to make DRM even more restrictive in order to “prevent piracy from rearing its head again.”
And I wouldn’t say that the masses are too stupid its that the industries are too deceptive and mainstream media is too busy helping children and fighting terrorism. Look at the Sony rootkit drama. The people affected by that didn’t know that Sony was rigging those CDs with rootkits. But I do agree that educating the masses is the answer. Teach people what DRM is about and present the whole story not just the bits that back up your viewpoint (that goes for opponents and advocates). Hell I didn’t know what a rootkit was until the Sony thing came up.
Re: nail.. head's over there
You are so full of sh*t you must wear a gas mask in the morning just to breathe. Good one… right, right… lets all place nice w/them and follow THEIR rules. You, and them, have apparently forgotten one thing……the ones w/the money are the ones in charge.
I repeat the next time you want a dvd, wait… don’t buy it, or just rent it for a few days. Save your $$.. if enough of us do it, they will have no choice but try something else, or at the very least make it cheap enough so you won’t care about their abusive DRM crap.
Re: nail.. head's over there
@Ryan “
If you didn’t pirate, they wouldn’t be going crazy about piracy”
Yes they would. They are. They do.
LOL!!! That’s rich!!
There’s already technology out there to hack RFID anyway.
Pfft...
Fuck DRM and fuck Microsoft. If I pay money for a movie… or anything for that matter, I’m going to do whatever I want with it and play it on whatever I want.
DRM is completely pointless. It will be cracked by someone no matter what.
All you really gotta do is fire up another program to record the output. And if it’s something that can only play on a device, you can use the input jack on your sound card and video in on your video card (if your card has it).
playing chicken with a train
time is infinite? you could have fooled me…
RE: "consumers' dissatisfaction with their busines
Well that’s a lofty description of a generation that has come of age expecting to download for free any song ever made.
If you think the price of a product is too high, your option is ‘don’t buy it’. You don’t just take it because you don’t like the “business model”. If you do, you’re not a ‘dissatisfied consumer’, you are a thief.
This would never fly with another business or product. There shouldn’t be a distinction between tangible goods and digital goods.
No one owes you cheap entertainment. If its too expensive, don’t buy it. Sheesh! This country is turning into a bunch of spoiled little b!tches.
Two way street
It seems to me that these large corporations (not just media) are trying to get all the benefits of globalization without any of the downside.
When an American gets his job outsourced to a lower cost-of-living country it’s just a result of the magical free market driving capital to its highest utility.
But when some poor bastard in the UK would like to buy an equal product for an equal price he’s obviously breaking the law and should be hung out to dry.
Yet another example of the little guys being screwed over by a large company with power and resources. All the while being told lies.
I’m normally not this militant, but this shit pisses me off.
wow more of this again
How about this:
if someone takes their own supplys and builds an exact replica of a table they saw in a sears catalogue they cost sears a possible sale of that table by building it themselves. its the same belief system with the digital universe you dont physically steal or take anything from anyone you simply make a copy of their 1’s and 0’s out of your own supply of 1’s and 0’s.
have fun poking at my analagy, and calling me a loony
Most people don't know what DRM is.
The average person on the street doesn’t know what DRM is. You can’t say that there screwing consumers and making there lives difficult if most consumers don’t even realise that DRM is on there movies and CD’s. This is just like listening to pot heads talk about legalization of weed. They want to get high without being hassled by the cops. And you want to steal music without paying the copyright holder.
Re: Most people don't know what DRM is.
I thought the subject of this thread was movies on DVSs, not music. You seem to be somewhat confused.
How to stop DRM
Remember, only the US and EU are dumb enough to impose such outragious restrictions. Most non-western countries have sane copyright laws. What would be nice is if every week or so hackers would break FairPlay, Playforsure, ZuneDRM, Adobe e-book DRM, rip prevention, and AACS DRM. All are obviously breakable so hopefully we can solve this problem by hacking DRM until it is broken so quickly after it is patched that MS, Apple, Adobe, the MPAA, and the RIAA loose millions. We all know the entertainment industry would be better without the RIAA and MPAA, and Apple and MS are the two biggest jerks in the tech industry. Cause them to loose money on patches and you win. They can’t fix them for as cheap as we can break it.
Re: How to stop DRM
Only the US and EU… so other than China that’s
the world market except for some isolated pockets
of development like Brazil.
Yeah, Apple and MS, what jerks they are. I mean
being responsible for putting a PC in most homes
if not directly then by their development of the
product in general.
Geez…
Re: Re: How to stop DRM
Which is why I use Linux Smart ass.
Re: Re: Re: How to stop DRM
I don’t see what bearing that
has on the fact that if it were not
for Apple and Microsoft (and IBM)
you wouldn’t have the massive
home use of PC.
I had Altair and Cromemco machines
at home when I was an engineer
working on the DEC Rainbow…
but that’s another story.
So using linux doesn’t impress me
much. The majority of users need
linux like they need a rubick’s cube.
And that’s how it should be. Who
gives a crap what OS you use… it’s
the applications, stupid.
In any case X-11 sucks.
So written by a long time BSD user.
All their trying to do is make all our Entertainment Systems [that we shelled out big bucks for] obsolete. That way we have to update everything. & Thats why I quit buying SONY junk 8 years ago.
Just a few notes...
First, DRM has pretty much zero effect on piracy. It really does. Its just as impossible to create a crack proof DRM as it is to eliminate analog to digital converters from every corner of the globe. Which basically means that if its important enough to someone they will get through the DRM.
Thinking of it from another angle.. The people who are affect the most by DRM are the people who BUY the music with the DRM on it. AKA. The people the RIAA is hurting the most are thier own customers. THIS is the big issue with DRM. The RIAA is literally making it easier to go out and download pirated music than it is to use the music people actually buy.
Second, albeit the average person on the street may know nothing about DRM. However, the average person on the street WHO BUYS DRM music (which are the only people who matter in this context) almost definitely WILL know about it if they really do anything with it..
Yes I see the RIAA’s point. They don’t like the fact that they are losing money on thier copyrights. But they are going about solving the problem in completely the wrong manner. Instead of enhancing the value of thier products so that people will go out and want to buy them instead of stealing them they are reducing the values of thier products so people want to go out and steal more usefull rip-offs of their product. Its a completely backwards business model.
So! on to my plan to get rid of DRM. 🙂 keep pirating the music boyz and don’t let the feds or DRM stop you. Eventually the RIAA will realize that their plan isn’t working as they make thier music less and less usefull untill no one buys it anymore. Better yet. Hopefully the music bands will realize that people who are want to listen to thier music will probably be willing to donate money to keep them making it. Not to mention paying to go to concerts. Then we can just eliminate the middleman who is driving the prices up.
just stop buying DRM products
i already refused years ago to buy anything with DRM after buying a CD that kept trying to install stuff on my PC when all i wanted to do was transfer the songs to MP3 to listen to on a portable player.
and that stance won’t change. i refuse to buy DRM products. i will stick by that stance to the end. DRM is just plain bad business. and as more and more people end up getting screwed by DRM, and things don’t work, they’ll stop paying out for anything with DRM.
all we can hope is that the RIAA and MPAA go out of business. already musicians are fighting back, because they can create their own CD’s in their own studios with modern computers and software very easily. using sites like MySpace or online music stores to distribute the music, they directly make money. currently musicians make nothing, or next to nothing, on the sale of their music. so the RIAA is quickly dying off and they are fighting like mad to survive, but they are doomed, musicians don’t need the big music companies any more.
as for movies, they too will do away with the MPAA, it will just take longer. but directors and producers can start looking to big financial firms to get their money, and then get around having to kiss studio ass. George Lucas did it decades ago, and i think it’s worked out pretty well for him. owning the rights to Star Wars, and not allowing some movie studio to own the rights, is why he’s so damn wealthy. so going to an outside financial source is going to happen more and more, and then, the studios will be left on the outside. again, technology today allows movies to be made by any one, and we’re only going to see more and more movies made outside the studios, and just using promotion companies and distributing companies to get their product out there, without the need for the MPAA or big movie studios.
the day is coming, and these companies realize it, and they are scared. that’s why they are screaming so loudly, they want someone to blame for when they go out of business, and right now they are trying to point the finger at pirating, but in fact, it’s they themselves that are their own demise. they themselves are putting themselves out of business.
(the solution isn’t to not buy their wares.. not buying means lost sales.. lost sales means they blame it on piracy and try to implement more DRM.)
Lost sales give me a break the music and movie industry have been ripping off the general public for years they are not losing any money! The ones getting ripped off are the bands they exploit and then send down the road if they don’t keep producing.
(we have to accept that nothing will change their view.)
Are you out of your mind? Speak for yourself! I don’t have to accept and will not accept DRM! That’s why I quit buying movies and music in less its DRM free. I have all the music I want any ways from the 60s and 70s when there was real bands not producer made bands like today, what a joke. I should be able to play my music on whatever and where ever and not be locked into a monopoly. (IPOD) I like to see you get your music back when your hard drive crashes GGG no backup sorry.
(The solution is to quit pirating. No matter how much people argue that DRM is wrong, so is pirating.
If you didn’t pirate, they wouldn’t be going crazy about piracy.)
You have been brain washed! LOL The solution is to quit buying their music and movies, till they drop to a reasonable price and get rid of DRM. I would be more than happy to buy their music then, because then it wouldn’t be worth the time or risk (virus) to search and steal the down load. The problem is the producers are greedy greedy greedy. They will never have enough money or power to keep them selves happy. Happiness does not come from money or power. Until they realize this they will never be happy.
(The only way to make DRM go away is to make it not needed… and the only way to do that is to buy your music and DVDs.)
Like I said
Till they drop to a reasonable price and get rid of DRM. I would be more than happy to buy their music. Then it wouldn’t be worth the time or risk (virus) to search and steal the down load.
The problem is there is no competition when they lock you in to buying from one like I tunes and an IPod. They can set their price. If all the music online was DRM free then it would be more competitive and prices would drop. They don’t want that. The whole industry is way over paid.
DRM SUCKS
(First, DRM has pretty much zero effect on piracy. It really does.)
Its not just piracy they are trying to prevent. You are missing the bigger picture, its monopolizing they want. Look at the IPOD and I tunes they want you to buy strictly from them. That’s not America to me. DRM SUCKS
The real bands need to cut out the middle man and sell their own music.
Why is this price fixing allowed?
The region code on DVD is a blatent attempt at
price fixing, If the US government is as supportive of
free trade as they claim, they would not allow this
practice to continue.
The MPAA and RIAA are not far removed from
drug cartels and other branches of organized crime
in their objectives and only slightly further removed
from such organizations in their methods.
The Revolution Is Being Televised
“Ryan on Sep 15th, 2006 @ 12:08pm
the solution isn’t to not buy their wares.. not buying means lost sales.. lost sales means they blame it on piracy and try to implement more DRM. we have to accept that nothing will change their view.–[snip]–The solution is to quit pirating. No matter how much people argue that DRM is wrong, so is pirating.”
I like your attempt at logic, but its gone badly with the two words “the solution”. Adjust what you’re saying to “another part of the solution” and cut out that first part, and you stop sounding like an RIAA tool and make a good point.
The first commenter in this thread is dead on. #1. Don’t buy crippled products. (That’s common sense, and yes… it adds up) #2. Don’t buy DRM products you don’t support (whether this means all DRM or especially lame DRM. Don’t forget, however hopelessly broken due to hard standards, that *ALL* DVD’s have DRM built into them, which is why Apple isn’t touting RIP.MIX.BURN. on digital movies and the companies that due are highly cautious in their wording… or highly anonymized). Along with that, make a general nuissance of yourself in telling the recording industry WHY you’re not buying this or that. Give them a mountain of incontrovertable proof by actually having a voice and using it to communicate with them. #3. Don’t pirate? It’s been my feeling that piracy just encourages the RIAA into thinking their product’s only weakness is in fact piracy itself (as opposed to poor delivery format or quality products).
I still believe that for the most part. I think people who care about the future of digital media and freedom of fair use should take “the hit” and simply support those bands and labels that release under services like eMusic. Like that new artist who’s work you refuse to buy on CD and who’s DRM you can’t stomach…? Listen to the song on Net radio and record it from there for your own fair use. Request the song on the radio. If eMusic gets to half the size of iTunes and continues its rise, it will eventually be seen as a far more preferable model… considering its music works on ALL players. Meanwhile Apple and Microsoft will be TRAPPED into a different model.
Point 3 is mostly lost on people though. People want… what they want. I know lots of people that haven’t bought CDs in years. Not because they don’t get new music, but because they pirate it all on Limewire. –Like you’re not being watched as a pirate. Write letters instead. Exercise fair use from the radio and buckle in. Get off your asses. Organize letter writing campaigns to the studios. Ignore DRM products and services. Is not supporting iPod a vote against DRM? No… that’s stupid. iPod is no more synonymous with DRM than any other multi-format playing music player, so those people need to get a clue.
If you’re not buying something… don’t buy crippled DVD players and DRM ridden media. For instance, don’t buy “Zunes” which place DRM on all your music when letting you send it to someone else wirelessly violating Creative Commons Licensing (this… is some bullshit right there).
Really. Don’t download pirated songs, and sign up for services like eMusic. AllofMp3 is another pirate to be avoided (sending the message that you’d pay .02 for the latest John Legend single is about as worthless a message to studios as spitting in the wind). Get organized and– gawd, stop the mindless, directionless whining that people that produce content (videos, songs, whatever) are some how in charge of some evil yoke of tyranny. Like all movements… the “enemy” only has the power we give them. It’s insanely frustrating that people want to give power and complain about the abuse of that power in the same breath. How useless is that?
(Ignore DRM products and services. Is not supporting iPod a vote against DRM? No… that’s stupid. iPod is no more synonymous with DRM than any other multi-format playing music player, so those people need to get a clue. )
clueless.
(Ignore DRM products and services. Is not supporting iPod a vote against DRM? No… that’s stupid. iPod is no more synonymous with DRM than any other multi-format playing music player, so those people need to get a clue. )
Looks like your the one who is clueless.
First of all ipod was just an example of many. I chose them because they are the biggest. And you are contradicting yourself. Get your head out of your ass!(Ignore DRM products and services) Letters give me a break. I all ready am doing my part by not buying their over priced virus ridden music. I could care less what the producers think or do. You must work for apple.
Region restriction is very annoying if you have to travel across regions.
When I travel with my laptop I have to be careful not to use any local DVDs to install software (needed for my work as a SE) or as entertainment.
Even though I have purchased these disks locally, or have rights to install the software from the client, I can not use them as they consume one of the region changes in my DVD drive.
What we need is ERM
Employment Rights Management.
With ERM-enabled countries, a company trying to prevent people from buying discs intended for other, cheaper markets will be allowed to do so…. BUT if they DO, ERM will kick in.
They can prevent, say, a Canadian from buying discs that weren’t intended for the Canadian market… but ERM will force the manufacturer of the Canadian version to only be able to sell in Canada discs that were manufactured in Canada, playable only on machines manufactured in Canada, said discs containing only content prodeuced in Canada.
If we’re going to allow the price-fixing that is region-coding, ERM should level the playing field nicely.
clueless
“And you are contradicting yourself.” – Thad
Where am I contradicting myself? How about you actually speakie-ze-Englaise and actually make your point instead of just slinging gobs of mud like a baboon (unless you *have* no point of course). It’s ok to only have feral emotion (like envy, greed, or lust), just don’t dress it up in a tux and call it an opinion if you can’t express it properly.
Regarding contradiction, maybe you’re just noticing the same dichotomy of opinion I see everyday surrounding DRM and making a real difference in the market. Don’t pretend to be immune at least do everyone a favor and be honest about it.
This “you must work for X” accusation is pretty toothless. If you’re going to attack something, attack my opinion with some solid logic and facts, instead of mindless insults and FUD. There’s irony in there.
DRM SUCKS
“The real bands need to cut out the middle man and sell their own music.” – Thad
I couldn’t agree more. I’ve created a system via osCommerce to help artists sell Mp3’s via their websites. To me, that’s power. The more artists realize… OH, this “web” thing is great and make certain their contracts allow them to control some independant aspect of their own distribution, the better!
You can see it implemented at WorldofNoel.com. She’s a great up and comer and a nice person.
http://www.worldofnoel.com/
I’m not going to begrudge iTunes, but I certainly wish all artists began distributing Mp3’s via their website, and customers clamored for it like an unignorable drumbeat. One of the main problems with that however, are appearing on the charts and soundscan numbers. It’s tough.
(Where am I contradicting myself? How about you actually speakie-ze-Englaise and actually make your point instead of just slinging gobs of mud like a baboon (unless you *have* no point of course). It’s ok to only have feral emotion (like envy, greed, or lust), just don’t dress it up in a tux and call it an opinion if you can’t express it properly.
Regarding contradiction, maybe you’re just noticing the same dichotomy of opinion I see everyday surrounding DRM and making a real difference in the market. Don’t pretend to be immune at least do everyone a favor and be honest about it. )
Must have hit a nerve! Listen dick weed all I’m saying is DRM is bullshit. Do you under stand that? I will never buy a CD or DVD again in my life if it has DRM.
Its assholes like you that make people want to Pirate.
(DRM and making a real difference in the market) For Whom, certainly not the consumer.
http://techdirt.com/articles/20060919/101920.shtml Read This dick weed. Looks like i’m not the only one who thinks this way.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20060223/2229236.shtml And this Dick weed
Funny how they use Apple too.
reed the Link Dick Weed
Yahoo Dips Another Toe In DRM-Free Waters
http://techdirt.com/articles/20060919/101920.shtml
(And it makes others in the industry look even more foolish for thinking that the way forward is to mimic Apple’s closed system approach.)
There’s irony in there.
(Ignore DRM products and services. Is not supporting iPod a vote against DRM? No… that’s stupid. iPod is no more synonymous with DRM than any other multi-format playing music player, so those people need to get a clue. )
No dick Weed you need to get a Clue!!!!!
Funny how they use Apple too.
reed the Link Dick Weed
Yahoo Dips Another Toe In DRM-Free Waters
http://techdirt.com/articles/20060919/101920.shtml
(And it makes others in the industry look even more foolish for thinking that the way forward is to mimic Apple’s closed system approach.)
There’s irony in there.
(Ignore DRM products and services. Is not supporting iPod a vote against DRM? No… that’s stupid. iPod is no more synonymous with DRM than any other multi-format playing music player, so those people need to get a clue. )
No dick Weed you need to get a Clue!!!!!
Haha keep pirating guysm keep pirating
Keep pirating, dont even stop, do what ever you can to get past it. You have a DRMed song? So what, download Audacity and record and export it as an mp3. Better yet, hop on Limewire or your favorite torrent client and download away. Good luck my fellow pirates, this is a fight we will continue to win. The RIAA and MPAA and running on a hamster wheel that they call progress, and will never succeed. As you read this message, there are other private nettworks opening, file sharing storage sites, and more file sharing going on by billions of people around the globe. The RIAA and MPAA cant stop that, no matter how hard the try.
Keep going pirates, lead us to victory over this battle of many years. Ignore their words, methods, and do what you do best. Find a song, and click away!
We are the majority aside from the government and its inforcers, we are in control. Pirate whatever you can get your hands on!
Your fellow war mate, and follower,
Yoshimitsu