Spate Of New Laws To Make Life Miserable For Used CD Stores
from the that'll-fix-your-problems dept
For a long time, Ticketmaster had to defend itself against charges that it was a monopolist. After awhile, the uproar died down, but then the company turned around and embraced monopolistic practices by using politicians and the courts to go after the competition. The company claimed that it wanted to crack down on the concert ticket after-market in a bid to protect consumers from scalpers and fakes, but the company's only intention was to eliminate competitors and keep its margins high. The incident was a good demonstration of the fact that the truest monopolies are ones that are buttressed by the government. A similar story is now playing out in another aspect of the music business, as various state and local governments are stepping in to make life harder for sellers of used CDs. Under the new laws, used CD stores would have to take all kinds of security measures and apply for a special license, which would require them to post a $10,000 bond. In some places, stores would only be able to pay out store credit. Ostensibly, the new laws are all about protecting the public, with the idea that used CD stores shouldn't be accepting merchandise from thieves. But there's no doubt that these laws are essentially designed to protect sellers of new CDs and record labels, which have never liked the used CD business. While it may be true that the used CD business subtracts marginally from the market for new CDs, these issues distract from more important issues, as record labels and CD music retailers of all sorts have bigger fish to fry if they want to thrive in a changing industry.
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by ScaredOfTheMan on May 7th, 2007 @ 10:27am
On a sinking ship you bail water with whatever you got...even if its a teaspoon.
Next they will outlaw garage sales
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by Anonymous Coward on May 7th, 2007 @ 10:29am
Oh ho ho ho do you seriously want to drive customers online to find cheap music?
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Gee, thanks, Techdirt, you caused me to break the by Dave M on May 7th, 2007 @ 10:30am
You see, now I'm apparently guilty of theft, and it's your fault Techdirt!.
At the bottom of that Reuters article about selling used CDs, there is a link entitled, "Click for restrictions", which tells me, among other things:
When I followed the link to the Reuters article, my browser automatically made a complete copy and stored it on my hard drive. Do you think they would go easy on me if I just turned myself in?
Man, I am so screwed!
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Stolen CD's by Jamaal Johnson on May 7th, 2007 @ 10:40am
This has nothing to do with technology and does not need to be on techdirt. It is about kids going into walmart, stealing 20 cd's, and then reselling them at the used CD store.
This is what kids used to do for drug money at my school.
For once, an article that says "Stolen Music" actually means "Stolen Music".
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Truth in advertising by Adam on May 7th, 2007 @ 11:08am
Since most DVD and CD advertisements end with the exhortation to "own it today!", I can only pray that some enterprising soul will file a class action suit for false advertising.
This kind restriction on resale of CD's and DVD's makes it clear that the members of RIAA and MPAA do not want to you to "own" it at all... just rent it with ownership remaining with the publisher/distributor.
"Intellectual property" is an oxymoron under the original intent of copyright, trademark, and patent laws.
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Re: Stolen CD's by Anonymous Coward on May 7th, 2007 @ 11:09am
Bring it on, the way it is now we have a chance to catch these kids and throw them in jail or juvie or whatever it takes to straighten them out or ruin their lives or whatever ends up happening. The war on drugs is stupid, but I've got no sympathy for shoplifters.
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by Count Porkula on May 7th, 2007 @ 11:10am
I wonder how this will affect online retailers such as Ebay and Amazon? I quit buying new CDs years ago after Metallica, Sony the RIAA, etc. started treating their fans like criminals and infringing on my rights to fair use. As such I now get all my music by P2P. Life is good.
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Re: Re: Stolen CD's by Anonymous Coward on May 7th, 2007 @ 11:56am
Wow, that last statement killed your posting. It actually makes it sound like your a proponent of legalizing currently illegal drugs. That would not be a stance to take if you want people to believe you to have credibility in a debate. Might as well have just put on a tin foil hat so the government couldn't read your brain waves...
While preventing kids stealing to sustain a drug habit is a positive goal, it would seem that the reform should come from the stores losing the product rather then the governments regulation of stolen goods. Receiving of stolen property is already illegal, but in the case of CDs, there is no way for them to know if they are legit.
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Bring in the dogs by OKVol on May 7th, 2007 @ 11:59am
Surely the RIAA is training some dogs (at the same place used by the MPAA) to sniff our stole CDs. For that matter, you could use dogs trained to sniff our marijuana, since most CDs are stolen from cars in which pot has been smoked, and the owner was too stoned to remember to lock the doors...then they used the money from the CDs that were stolen to go buy more drugs and CDs that they liked, until those were stolen...wow, this is like a product cycle.
Anyway, I'd lay odds that more CDs are stolen from individuals than from Walmart.
Didn't your soulmate have a CD that you really couldn't stand, so you sold it at Ameoba Records?
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by Amethyst on May 7th, 2007 @ 12:02pm
People have been stealing since the dawn of time. I don't advocate it, certainly, but are they really naive enough to think that punishing the little guy is going to actually stop it? It'll still happen.
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by Amethyst on May 7th, 2007 @ 12:02pm
People have been stealing since the dawn of time. I don't advocate it, certainly, but are they really naive enough to think that punishing the little guy is going to actually stop it? It'll still happen.
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Idiots by Most of you are idiots on May 7th, 2007 @ 12:09pm
This has NOTHING to do with the RIAA. Are you people stupid? It has to do with shoplifting and burglaries.
If a store reports that 5 cd's were stolen and a pawn shop received those 5 cd's the police can easily track down the stolen goods and catch the shoplifter. If someone broke into your car and stole your cd wallet, the police can more easily track them down.
This is why they want the 20 day window. Used CD stores are very similar to pawn shops, and receive a lot of stolen goods.
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Re: Stolen CDs by TheToe on May 7th, 2007 @ 12:16pm
Is this going to affect pawn shops also? They sell a butt load of used cds. Are they going to have to put up a ten grand bond also. What about stolen CD players (or insert name of any item here), how do you know the kid didn't steal the player when he stole the cds. Most CDs in major outlets have the screaming tags in them that make the alarm go off when you leave the store if they weren't scanned.
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by Chris on May 7th, 2007 @ 12:18pm
Do you really think that the Police would care/have enough time to track down some stolen CD's??? I would really love to live some place where, if somebody stole my CD case the police would track it down.
This is the reason that I stopped buying CD's. My CD's were stolen, reported it, nothing....., So I downloaded my entire collection instead of buying them. I haven't bought a CD since.
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waste of time by JustMatt on May 7th, 2007 @ 12:21pm
Another example of "We've got to do something, and fast!" by a wasteful government. Wait until this law extends to Craigslist and Freecycle and garage sales.
The rule of first sale says that I have a legal right to resell my . Until that is repealed I see no point in enacting legislation to make things more difficult.
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by Sanguine Dream on May 7th, 2007 @ 12:23pm
Comment #4:
I used to be part of a small shoplifting ring when I was in college but I was nearly caught twice in one week and was scared straight without getting caught. But looks like at least one judge is trying to find a way to scare/embarrass shoplifters.
Comment #8:
I think what he/she meant by the war on drugs being stupid isn't that fact getting rid of drugs is a bad idea but perhaps that for the most part the war on drugs isn't going that well.
And I can see years from now the RIAA trying buy a law that forces CD manufactures to rig a CD so that it will only play in the first CD player it plays in be it walkman, car stereo, pc or whatever.
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Re: Idiots by MichaelK on May 7th, 2007 @ 12:32pm
Yeah, Idiots, I'm sure the cops will get right on that 5-CD theft.
For example - they ignore $500 bikes getting stolen every day around here, and those have serial numbers on them... and even more expensive bikes in larger cites. I don't see any effort to regulate the used bike shops that buy bikes for cash.
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by Anonymous Coward on May 7th, 2007 @ 12:34pm
This has NOTHING to do with the RIAA. Are you people stupid? It has to do with shoplifting and burglaries.
If a store reports that 5 cd's were stolen and a pawn shop received those 5 cd's the police can easily track down the stolen goods and catch the shoplifter. If someone broke into your car and stole your cd wallet, the police can more easily track them down.
This is why they want the 20 day window. Used CD stores are very similar to pawn shops, and receive a lot of stolen goods.
How exactly are they going to prove that those CDs are the ones that were stolen from WalMart or wherever? How do the authorities know that they didn't come out of some kids collection. "Some hopped up teenager and his gang friends just wanna smoke the marijuana so they are stealing CDs for drug money". This is the same argument as the "Save the children" arguments. Some bought and paid-for politicians are doing this to show that they are doing something. This doesn't have anything to do with a CD that gets stolen from a store. RIAA, MPAA, and the rest cry foul when they can't get your money more than once for the same item. What do I do when I just don't want a CD anymore? I take it to a used record store. I don't want in-store credit, I want to go to 7-eleven and buy some PEZ or something. I'm tired of that MC Hammer CD and I think PEZ will be a good replacement. Who is the government to interfere between a valid and legal business transaction between a record store and me? This isn't a gun that will kill someone.
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Re: Idiots by Lucy on May 7th, 2007 @ 12:43pm
I think you're an idiot! Once the wrapper comes off the CD package, how are you going to track it? This is a dumb rule that restricts free commerce. And yeah, I'm biased against the idea because I'm an Amaz*n seller of used CDs.
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CD's Are Dying by Kenny on May 7th, 2007 @ 12:46pm
Does it really matter? CD's are a dying technology. These "helpful" laws are two decades to late. Maybe they will do the same thing with cassettes, 8-Tracks and Records. What about phonographs...heaven forbid!
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Stop attacking the kids.. by Wyatt on May 7th, 2007 @ 12:52pm
If the county wasn’t already f***ed up then maybe they wouldn’t feel the need to steal. If this article is really "about kids stealing" then why not comment on that aspect. How about doing something productive with them, rather than just locking them up. I'm sure these kids have damned good reason to do what they do. Weather its bad parenting or bad role models on TV telling em to shoot people and steal to get what they need.
Anyway, back to the real point of the article. I'm betting that the largest percentage of the people who sell their music to a used CD store purchased that music legally. I would love to see a study done on the subject. It would be a waste of money and prove absolutely nothing.. But hey, why not waste more time and money on small scale problems that only affect a company that makes billions ripping off musicians anyway.
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Re: by Charles Griswold on May 7th, 2007 @ 12:54pm
What if it's a fully-automatic assault PEZ?
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Simple solution by rEdEyEz on May 7th, 2007 @ 12:55pm
RIP'em to mp3's, destroy them, and toss.
...then, don't buy them (CDs) anymore.
You retain the "value" of the content, and no longer are subjecting yourself to "pawn shop booking" aka fingerprinting/ID databasing/background checking.(lol)
...the industry is self-destructing, - good riddance.
ps. How long before M$FT removes the "RIP feature" from WMP?
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Re: by Anonymous Coward on May 7th, 2007 @ 12:56pm
Sure, that way you can sue them for way more!(reply to this comment) (link to this comment)
Re: Stolen CD's by ehrichweiss on May 7th, 2007 @ 1:08pm
Don't you think that it's up to the publishers here on Techdirt to determine if this article is supposed to be here or not?
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Re: Re: Re: Stolen CD's by ehrichweiss on May 7th, 2007 @ 1:14pm
What does desiring to legalize currently illegal drugs have to do with killing his statement, in anyone's but your own eyes? It's been proven that the moment we make a "War On" something we are immediately doomed to lose it...drugs, terror, homeless, poverty, dumbass politicians trying to make it even harder than it already is to get by..
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Re: Stop attacking the kids.. by Wyatt on May 7th, 2007 @ 1:20pm
Whether! Geez I suck, I'm gonna go steal some CD's and sell em..
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Stolen CD's by Anonymous Coward on May 7th, 2007 @ 1:52pm
How has it been proven? In order for your statement to be true no one could have ever won a war...
BTW: There have been attempts to legalize currently illigal drugs, and it has never panned out well. In fact, with the increase of availability of drugs there have been significant increases in other problems. Remember, people don't steal and kill because drugs are expensive. They steal and kill because they are not free.
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Re: Idiots by Anonymous Coward on May 7th, 2007 @ 1:58pm
Are you serious? First of all, stores don't know anything has been stolen in most cases until they do inventory and notice a numbers discrepancy, which can be weekly or monthly depending on the stores. Second, how would they find the kids who sold the CDs to the shop? It's not like they take your finger prints and a DNA sample when you hock some CDs.
You are over simplifying the problem. What do you think they would do if they caught the kids? They would get a slap on the wrist and sent back out to get high and steal more CDs.
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Used CD stores help sell new CDs. by Chris on May 7th, 2007 @ 2:01pm
The write-up says:
I'm no economist (this is about to become obvious), but: It's my understanding that healthy markets for used goods actually help sell new stuff. I'm far more likely to take a gamble on a CD if I know I can get half my cash back if I don't like it. Even if the person I sell it to would have bought it new, it's still good for the new CD market in general: the record company makes the cash from the sale they would have had anyway, and I'm more likely to try new stuff.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Stolen CD's by maybe on May 7th, 2007 @ 2:11pm
Yes drugs are not free. But a certain drug.. pot wouldn't be so pricey if it were legal. The cost to traffic drugs is also what drives the cost and the violence up. In a world where you could just grow your own or in which the gov't regulated the sale of this plant would not only drop the overall cost of the plant but all the negative aspects(mules, forced labor, turf wars, etc.) of the business of moving it around. The big picture is that while not all drugs should be legal some shouldn't have been made illegal in the first place. Pot is a plant that you can grow and smoke unlike coka ( misspelled ) which must be processed en masse to produce cocaine.
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Re: Stolen CD's by Nismoto on May 7th, 2007 @ 4:28pm
What article were you reading? Nowhere did I see the words "stolen music".
Reselling stolen "new cds from Walmart" would still be new cds. Perhaps you've been spending too much drug money on, well,... DRUGS.
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by Anonymous Coward on May 8th, 2007 @ 8:24am
What article were you reading? Nowhere did I see the words "stolen music".
Reselling stolen "new cds from Walmart" would still be new cds. Perhaps you've been spending too much drug money on, well,... DRUGS.
It only takes a second to open up a CD and take out the mag-strip... then they aren't New CDs anymore.
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What's the real issue by John on May 8th, 2007 @ 2:53pm
For years, I've gone to used CD stores to buy older CD's.
Is the real issue here that some corporate attorney thinks people buy too much older stuff from used CD stores instead of the latest release of yet another American Idol singer? Are sales of new CD's so bad that the corporate attorneys want to shut down used CD's stores to help inflate sales of new CD's?
This is probably due to lack of retail space: places like Best Buy want proven sellers, so they'll give plenty of rack space to American Idol, Britney Spears, and the latest "bakd of the week". But just try to find an older Elvis or Rolling Stones CD.
Or is it because organizations like the RIAA have basically locked-down CD prices for more than 20 years. Why are CD's still in the $15.99 to $19.99 price range? (Note: I haven't bought a CD is years, so please correct me if the prices are different.)
CD players have fallen in price and so has the media (such as blank CD's with jewel cases). So why do CD's cost the same in 2007 as they did in 1981? (Cue long debate on the falling price of physical goods, but the rising cost of production *services*.)
If people are wary about a new artist, wouldn't it be better to try out the music by buying a used CD at half price? If it's no good, you've only spend half your money. If you like it, you'll go get some more CD's by the same band.
But then we're back to the earlier issue of trying to find the band's earlier CD's in the big retail store.
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