DirecTV DVR Will Delete Pay-Per-View Shows
from the record-at-your-own-risk dept
First we had ABC thinking that not allowing people to fast forward through commercials on a DVR-type product was a good idea, and now comes the news that DirecTV will automatically delete Pay-Per-View shows you record with your DVR after 24-hours. This is apparently at the request of the major Hollywood studios who have decided that the best way to build up an audience is to piss them off by not allowing them to record the movies that they legally paid for via PPV, and then chose to record and time shift. Time shifting is perfectly legal, so there's absolutely no legal reason for DirecTV to ban the practice. As for the Hollywood studios, this is more backwards thinking. One of these days, someone in Hollywood is going to realize that pissing off your loyal customers isn't a good idea.
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Well... by Bob on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 7:40am
It seems to me that Pay-Per-View spells it out pretty clearly. Why the need to time shift an on-demand movie? Just start it when you want to watch it. Where is the piss-off factor in that? If you want to watch the movie over and over again over several days buy the DVD.
Back on the ABC deal, if I am unfortunate enough to miss my show or forgot to DVR the show I will pay the price by sitting through the commercials. They aren't asking to make it so the shows we DVR from "live' TV can't be commercial skipped, just the premium "I forgot to watch or record the show versions"
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by Ima Fish on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 7:40am
"One of these days, someone in Hollywood is going to realize that pissing off your loyal customers isn't a good idea."
Highly doubtful.
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Re: Well... by Ima Fish on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 7:57am
"Just start it when you want to watch it."
Apparently you live in a world where nothing comes up interrupting your viewing experience. The rest of live in a different world where such interruptions are common. In fact, it's those interruptions that lead people to buy/rent DVRs in the first place.
In your world without interruptions, do they even sell/rent DVRs?!
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DirecTV by Erv Server on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 8:09am
Another reason to not have DirecTV, like we needed another one
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Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 8:12am
So what if I keep a copy of the movie and watch it twice? Thats like telling me I cant watch a movie twice if I rent it from a store. Screw that.
Let me tell you about the last movie I bought on xbox live. It was Braveheart HD. I began watching it when it said it had buffered enough. The buffer ran out fairly early on in the show. I wasnt too invested in the movie yet. So I said okay Ill just let it finish downloading and watch it again tomorrow.
Tomorrow comes. Around the same time as I started trying to watch it the first day. Movie is downloaded. I started watching the movie.
3/4 through the time is exactly 24 hours after I first started trying to watch the movie.
WHAM! Expired. Can't finish the movie.
Did I say that was the last movie I ever bought on xbox live?
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Wrong, Wrong, Wrong... by A. L. Flangan on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 8:15am
"One of these days, someone in Hollywood is going to realize that pissing off your loyal customers isn't a good idea."
Do you have even a shred of evidence to back up that outrageous statement?
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Re: Wrong, Wrong, Wrong... by Anonymous Coward on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 8:17am
Yes
Detroit & cars.
They did not get it either.
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i disagree by bob on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 8:18am
I completely disagree. It's not legal to burn a copy of a DVD you rent at Blockbuster and play it over and over. (even if you dont sell it) so why should pay-per-view be any differently?
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Copy DVDs by shanoboy on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 8:22am
This is why folks like me have resorted to renting movies, ripping them to my hard drive and bypassing the whole DVR thing in favor of a mediacenter PC that I just stream the copied movie to my TV with.
Oh, and out of spite I make copies of all my movies for friends and family.
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More Restrictions = Increased Piracy by Freedom on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 8:25am
It's funny, the one thing that I always liked about getting a PPV with a DVR on DirecTV is that you can watch it weeks later. We have a busy family and this gives everyone a chance in the family to watch it.
By restricting this capability, all it's doing is increasing my costs and reducing my benefits. As any business owner or savvy consumer will tell you, these two combined items are a sure way to get someone to look for another solution.
In this case, it makes DVD Rentals or bitTorrent sites look more attractive. With the usual Friday Night Rental Store Issues, bitTorrent or NetFlix VoD services start to become a better alternative if you have the setup for it.
Not sure if this is going to hurt the Movie Industry, but it will definitely reduce our spending on DirecTV PPV.
Freedom
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Re: i disagree by bored on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 8:25am
Ok moron,,, What if you can't get back in to watch your show within that 24 hour time frame. What if it's 36 - 48 hours later that you are able to watch the show that we paid to see? Start thinking outside of the box for once.
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Re: i disagree by shanoboy on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 8:25am
I just ripped a DVD I rented from Blockbuster for you Bro!
Seriously though, whats the harm in letting someone store a pay-per-view movie on their DVR? Or at least let them store it for a week. Blockbuster at least gives you a week to return movies!
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24 hours is all you need by chris on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 8:26am
to get it ripped and up on the pirate bay :-)
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Re: Well... by Chronno S. Trigger on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 8:27am
I see you don't understand the concept of Pay-Per-View on DirectTV. DirectTV is a satellite company. There is no on-demand. You pay for it to watch when they say you can and only then. That's where the DVR comes in.
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Ah the wisdom.... by Wine Country Man on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 8:31am
I'm afraid yet again, you are right they don't get it. Sometimes it isn't reality in our busy lives to watch something in the 24 hour period after. If they did that with the regular recording, what would be the point of even having a DVR. Another reason to switch to TIVO
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Movies vs. Events by JB on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 8:31am
I doubt this affects anyone watching an on-demand movie. You would normally not purchase the movie until you were ready to watch it, and those movies can be paused anyway without using DirecTV.
Where this policy really matters is for pay-per-view EVENTS, such as a boxing match. It is not available on demand. Here you might want to purchase it at the time it is broadcast for future viewing.
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by Anonymous Coward on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 8:33am
Okay, first of all, pay-per-view and video-on-demand are two different things. PPV means exactly what it says, you pay for each viewing. I personally hate it because it's so restrictive. You have to watch it when it's showing, and can only watch it once for about the same price you can rent the DVD from your local video rental store. Most rental places I know of let you rent a DVD for 3-4 days at a time, plenty of time to watch it at your leisure, and several times if you want. VOD, on the other hand, let's you watch a movie whenever it's convenient, but I believe it's still subject to a time limit.
I do think that expiration times are necessary for this type of content, but 24 hours is ridiculous. As I said, any self-respecting rental store lets you hang onto a movie for 3-4 days, so PVR recordings of PPV movies and VOD rentals should also have at least a 3-day time limit on them. That is not unreasonable by any stretch of the imagination. Also, it will make such services more valuable to people, so they will use them more, generating more profit for the providers. It's a win-win situation, and it's stupid to constantly try to crack down on supposed piracy. Whenever you start treating all your customers as potential criminals, it will never help your bottom line.
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Still have Return of the King in HD PPV by PRMan on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 8:33am
On my DirecTV HD TiVo (which DirecTV just replaced), I still have Lord of the Rings: Return of the King in HD (this from before DirecTV began reducing the resolution). It has been years.
Also, when I rented Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer for my daughter's birthday party, they said it would expire in 1 month. That was November 29 and I checked it about a week ago and it still works. Shh.
I agree, though. There have been several times that we could not finish a movie in a single night and if it expires in 24 hours, we wouldn't rent it from DirecTV.
I guess they want us to use Netflix instead.
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Dish by Thom on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 8:36am
I have Dish Network and the DishPVR. A couple months back one of the channels (AMC?, TCM?) ran a marathon of old "The Saint" shows. I set the PVR to record every one.
That night I turned on the TV, checked the list of recorded shows and verified all were present and one was still taping. A check the next morning showed all episodes taped. A couple days later I came back to watch all the Saint episodes and they were all gone - but my other, prior and later, recordings were still there.
That's happened to me a few times in the past year but it was always one episode here or there and I always blamed the unit's sluggish response and my quick fingers for accidentally removing the shows. There was no way that was the case this last time - it was either a very bizarre bug that deleted half a dozen episodes or it was automatically deleted by the device. Personally I suspect the latter, that Dish Network snuck this "feature" in during a firmware update and that it's just not seeing widespread enough use that customers are noticing it.
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Re: Well... by moe on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 8:36am
Your understanding of the ABC deal is wrong. You cited, "forgetting to DVR the show" and thus having to sit through the commercials.
You also said, "They aren't asking to make it so the shows we DVR from "live' TV can't be commercial skipped." In fact, that's exactly what they wanted to do -- their plan was that if you DVR'd a show, then you couldn't skip the commercials.
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DTV sucks by SP on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 8:39am
Yet another reason to cancel DTV and switch to DISH Network. DirecTV always seems to cater to the big boys in Hollywood... Wonder why that is... hmm...
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Hollywood execs = gun+foot+itchy trigger finger... by MadJo on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 8:42am
I think I'll buy a regular VHS recorder instead. Timeshifting without them being able to delete the content.
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by RobG on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 8:49am
It's all about money and rights. If you don't like it, vote with your wallet and spend your money elsewhere.
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Of all the things the entertainment idustry is pul by Yeah, another AC whatever on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 8:54am
for some reason this one seems reasonable, I have never had a problem with the 24 hour window to watch an on demand movie, I really didn't think there were still PPV movies, I thought anything PPV was live, like boxing or a concert. If I pay for a movie ticket, I get to watch it once for the cost of that ticket, I cant leave halfway through and show up the next day to catch up, this seems like a similiar situation ("pay per view") Like a previous poster said, if you want to watch something as often as you want, purchase the movie, whether it be DVD or a legal download.
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Time Warner by Scott on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 8:59am
TWC does not even allow you record the PPV stuff, they do give you access to anything you purchase for 24 hours, but you can not record it...sucks right?!?!?
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You get what you pay for by bshock on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:00am
Buy a DVR, reap the "rewards" of external control of your media.
Try BitTorrent instead.
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by Anonymous Coward on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:01am
I still have my old Microsoft UltimateTV DVRs on DirecTV. I don't have to worry about this I guess.
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possible workaround? by Anonymous Coward on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:08am
what about pulling out the harddrive, and copying the movie off before the dvr deletes it!
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Pay-Per-View != On-Demand by Anonymous Coward on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:08am
I guess this might be hard for some of the younger folks to get, but Pay-Per-View is not the same thing as On-Demand. If it were, thenthe arguments about just 'buying' it when you intend to watch it, or comparissons to copying a rented DVD, would make sense.
Pay-Per-View is a lot older than On-Demand. I don't keep up with it these days, not worth my time, but I remember when big boxing or wrestling matches, or cetain sporting events, would be on Pay-Per-View. They tell you the time, you pay them the money, and then you sit and watch, captive-audience like. Now, If I pay for it why shouldn't I be allowed to record it and watch it at my leisure? I copy lots of shows on my DVR specifically because I don't have time every day to sit down and watch TV -- giving me a 24-hour window won't help much, and effectively discourages me from buying in the first place.
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No problem by Dave on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:11am
I'm sure it will take the fine folks over at DealDatabase.com about a week to figure out how to turn off this "feature" in Tivo. Problem solved...
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Re: Well... by Jeff on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:23am
The only problem with your logic, Bob, is that DirectTV's PPV movies are NOT on-demand. They have set start times so timeshifting makes perfect sense.
I am a DirecTv customer, and I vote with my wallet. I never buy their PPV programs because there are too many legal and less-than-legal options that are more consumer-friendly.
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It's Piracy by Mike Burda on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:25am
I loved this comment - "Oh, and out of spite I make copies of all my movies for friends and family".
That is not spite. That is piracy.
I think it is hilarious that people say, "Add protection will create added piracy". The fact of the matter is that piracy is rampant now and will continue to be that way unless media companies protect themselves.
Pirates create piracy and by reading the number of open posts in this thread extolling piracy, we have a lot of pirates.
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Re: It's Piracy by Rick on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:38am
Pirates will continue to pirate no matter what media companies do to protect themselves.
All this "protecting" that media companies do simply hurts honest consumers and makes these products less valuable to them.
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by RobG on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:42am
I don't have DIRECTV anymore but, when I did, I had some movies that sat on my hard drive for years. It was kinda like buying a DVD for $3.99. Not surprising that the party's over.
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It'll only effect their bottom line by Rochesterted on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:43am
I think a one month expiration wouldn't be nearly as upsetting - then folks don't "own" the video, but do have plenty of time to enjoy it. If they want to rent it again they might as they don't feel "burned". My girlfriend often falls asleep during movies. Being able to finish watching on the weekend is a requirement.
By putting this 24 hour constraint on people it makes them less likely to use DirectTV services. I was considering satellite, definitely not getting DirectTV. Really hurts DirectTV as it makes their revenue generating pvr and ppv services much less attractive.
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by tubes420 on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:44am
First of all......On-Demand is not even an option with satellite. Quit throwing that into the argument.
I was a subscriber to DirecTV for over ten years. I just recently moved to an apartment where I can't receive the signal (facing east instead of west). DirecTV shot themselves in the foot when they quit their partnership with TiVO. Their new DVR system is the absolute worst DVR system I have ever used & I'm with Time Warner right now and their system is pretty bad. Thats why I'm building my own DVR now, where the software automatically edits out the commercials, I pay absolutely no monthly fee & I can watch everything that I download. I didn't mind pay an extra fee for the convenience but they all keep on getting greedier & greedier.
The cable companies, music industry, & the movie industry is driving people to look for alternatives of getting their programming. Because of the cost of many things now I haven't purchased a movie or a CD in YEARS!! I still buy them but I will never pay full price, I'll go to the used places and buy them there @ a 1/4 of the price.
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by RobG on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:49am
Btw, David Pogue blogged about this very issue. Check it out at: http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/the-27-hour-day/
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They just don't get it by Carl on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:50am
Those of you defending this are taking "pay per view" too literally -- a better name would be "pay TO view", but the old name predates DVRs.
My favorite time to purchase a PPV movie is 2am midweek when my tuner isn't busy showing some other program, and my favorite time to watch one is the weekend. Why should that be so terrible?
Oh, and one other thing: how exactly is anybody financially harmed if I record "Cars" and my son watches it every day for a month? The PPV price is pretty fair compared to buying the DVD given that you saved the studio all kinds of manufacturing and distribution costs.
Talk about Artificial Scarcity!
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Re: It's Piracy by SomeGuy on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:51am
Out of spite, or hatred, he comits piracy. So it is both spite and piracy.
However, I think your logic that companies have to protect themselves from pirates is faulty. Yes, piracy is rampant now, but why is it rampant? Because people have an idea of what they want to do with content and they are being denied the ability to do it. And I mean basic things like, "watch the shows I enjoy when it's convenient to me," and "play the movie I own on any device I own" and other things like that. Content providers can either work to provide the services their customers want, or put up roadblocks against their customers to "protect" the way they do business.
They've chosen the latter route, abusing their customers rather than changing (even slightly) their business. The music industry is a great case study here: AmazonMP3, In Rainbows, and Ghosts I-IV prove that people are still willing to pay for music (even if it's available for free!) if you make available to them in a convienient way for the uses they want.
Companies should serve their customers, not 'protect' themselves from them. (Nevermind that these 'protections' have proven useless in stopping piracy.)
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Re: They just don't get it by RobG on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:52am
It's not about harm. It's about sucking as much money out of your wallet as possible.
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Re: Re: It's Piracy by Anonymous Coward on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:52am
Essentially, 'protecting' content turns honest consumers into disgruntled pirates.
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DVR and by Old_paranoid on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:57am
While I do not redistribute content that I watch, I have no qualms about changing the viewing terms to suit myself. Rather than buying a PVR, I bought a DVD burner and put it in-line between the satellite receiver and my TV. Thus my wife can drop in a disc and hit the record button and pick up 2 hours of stuff, mostly foreign kids shows. She has hundreds of un-labelled discs that I am now gradually finalizing and then ripping to my computer. I will have the kids split the rips into individual cartoons and shows without the adds. Then my wife can choose what she wants to keep and in the end we will have a much smaller and rather full collection of the shows that she likes.
Since it is burned to disc, it is outside of the control of the studios. It is not HD, but I find that standard DVD / TV quality is adequate - we only have one TV, a 36" Toshiba HDTV ready device I bought a long time ago, and I have no expectation of replacing it before it dies.
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by Anonymous Coward on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:59am
Oh, and one other thing: how exactly is anybody financially harmed if I record "Cars" and my son watches it every day for a month?
Imagine the PPV cost is, oh, $12. If you pay that once and save to the DVR, you pay $12. If you're made to pay it every 24 hours, that's, what, $360? *gasp!* You're stealing $348 worth of content! You should be ashamed.
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It's not just DTV by SoonerSkeene on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 10:07am
I work for DTV. We are going to implement this on April 15 for our DVR's, but our TiVo boxes will be short to follow. DishDVR and cable company DVR's also have to comply with this -- it's industry wide.
Trust me, we don't like it (that's not an official statement of DTV), but we pretty much have no choice if we want to keep our PPV provider contracts.
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Re: by Jason Still on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 10:16am
Oh, its much worse than that. Wikipedia says the budget for Cars was 120 million. Therefore, every time you watch the movie, if you don't pay $120 million per viewer you're obviously stealing cold, hard cash directly from the poor voice actors, artists, etc. How do you expect these poor people to live if you don't pay up (handing the money, of course, to some nice gentlemen in suits and trusting that they'll actually make sure those folks get their share)? The way I see it, you owe these folks 3.6 billion dollars! They may also accept limbs and organs if you beg and grovel.
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Re: Hollywood execs = gun+foot+itchy trigger finge by Anonymous Coward on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 10:16am
Just get a DVD Recorder, less room to take up than a VHS tape, and you can get Blank DVDs cheaper than you can get Blank VHS tapes.
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Re: Re: by Anonymous Coward on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 10:20am
OK, now you're just being silly. :p
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Easy by James on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 10:24am
Don't purchase PPV shows. Make them suffer monetarily for their bad policy.. I could make the same other forms of content.
The weirdos in the entertainment industry need to get a clue and realize you can control every single solitary instance of how your content is viewed; people will do what they want to do, and if you make it a PITA for them they will simply (one hopes) stop buying your crap.
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Re: Dish by SlappyJack on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 10:25am
DishDVR instructions are very explicit about "locking" shows you want for more than a few days. If you check the box to lock it, it won't delete automatically after a period of time. You can lock the recording at the time you set the event, so you don't have to do it after the fact.
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by Vincent Clement on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 10:26am
I can't talk enough about the ability to watch programs when it is convenient. I have fallen in love with the On Demand channels on digital cable and I have fallen in love with Windows Media Center. If more shows were available On Demand or via a PVR, I would watch more TV.
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Re: possible workaround? by w/e on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 10:31am
What the hell? Do you just post comments like that to show that you understand the components of a DVR? Who the hell is going to disassemble their DVR, remove its HDD, find the crazy cable that allows this nutso computer hookup, and then rip one movie off before it expired. Man that's dumb. You're dumb.
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bittorrent + appletv, best thing ever by j on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 10:32am
bittorrent + appletv, best thing ever ... at least until i can buy movies from my set top box that i don't have to worry about not being able to move them to other media devices.
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Well...Part II by Bob on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 10:50am
People, if you don't like the inconvenience of "Pay-per-view" or "not-quite-on-demand" get a services that truly offers it. If it is unavailable rent the DVD if you can't rent a DVD because you are too busy than why worry about watching a movie anyway.
Just because they are trying to protect their movies from being saved on dvr doesn't mean they are trying to piss you off. You understand you are paying for a view of the movie or the movie for a time frame. Even with true on-demand you can only watch it for 24 hours.
If I understand the way the satellite service works - the program come on every 30 minutes or hour or 2 hours or whatever and you can save it then. You don't need to save it for more than 24 hours. If you are so busy that it takes you 24 hours to watch it by pausing it while you have time than you really just don't have time to enjoy a movie.
If you all are truly worried about being able to enjoy what you pay for you will drop the silly arguments. If you just want to "own" the movie for a rental price than say so.
Yes there are many ways to illegally enjoy movies good for you, you are a thief, whether you like it or not. The product is for sale you don't want to pay for it so you "pirate" it.
I have been on the side of digital distribution for a long time. But it is arguments like this that make me think we have turned into a bunch of moochers waiting for the next free entertainment.
I understand about business models and how free works. If you "choose" that business model I applaud you and I even agree with it and support it. But just because someone doesn't want to give you their product doesn't mean they are stupid. If you are willing to stea...err "pirate" their product than it has value to you. If it has no value to you stop bitching because they won't give it to you.
Peace!
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by Anonymous Coward on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 10:58am
Screw DVR. My dad buys the movies and burns them with his DVD recorder. :D
I love DTV's service and selection. Also you can't really blame them for not letting you have your way. I bet if they didn't do this the movie studios would take them to court and sue the piss out of them like they do everything else they don't like.
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by RobG on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 11:05am
Hey, I canceled my DIRECTV/TiVo service and switched to a TiVo Series 3 box with cable. Now I don't get PPV or VOD. I can get Amazon Unbox but those movies expire in 24 hours too. If I really want to own a movie I can buy it or wait until it comes on to HBO and DVR it.
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"Bob" by SP on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 11:28am
Bob, who do you work for? Sony, BMG, RCA, MPAA? C'mon. You don't fool me. You're the only one on here who is trying to make the "entertainment" industry look like they aren't crooks themselves. You're one of those sheep who believes that the RIAA is actually doing good for the artists and paying them their share. There is a good reason why so many of us DO "pirate." And for the last time, STOP CALLING IT STEALING. I am not walking in to a store and running away with unpaid merchandise. I am downloading it. It is being DISTRIBUTED on the Internet and weather or not I pay for it is not the issue. The guy who ripped the movie or CD paid for it. He's now SHARING it and PROMOTING it. It is *NOT* STEALING. But yeah, maybe if the RIAA and MPAA weren't crooks themselves, more people would actually buy their shit. And maybe if they didn't charge $18.98 for a music CD that only has two good songs on it... Or $24.99 for a movie that isn't worth watching more than once.
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Re: Well...Part II by SomeGuy on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 11:36am
It has value to me. However, I would like to do X or Y with it, where X and Y are not unreasonable requests. Your time-limit, DRM, or similar 'protections' prevent me from doing X and/or Y. Now it has value and they aren't giving it (or even selling it!) to me; what recourse do you offer or propose?
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Re: Time Warner by bigstinky on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 11:58am
I have Time Warner and can DVR any PPV and keep it as long as I want. UFC!
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DirectTV by Tom Sawyer on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 12:02pm
DirectTv has the worst customers service department i have ever spoken to and the screw up my account every month. They have put me on paperless billing 4 times without asking me and even shut off my account due to non-payment when I did not receive a bill. I have 4 boxes and I have had my equipment replaced no less tha 10 times in 3 years because their equipment is crap. One time they sent me a replacement box that looked liek it was dropped out of a speeding vehicle. I told them it was unacceptable and they said too bad that's the way it foes until I told them to get their shit equipment out of my house. Their techs have lied to me about how the equipment works and have even installe faulty equipmrnt and told me some made up story so they could leave and let the next guy deal with it. They also send nothing but African immigrant techs that barely speak english and smell like the haven't showered in weeks. DirectTV is without a doubt the worst company ever whne it comes to customer service and quality of equipment. THEY SUCK and as soon as my contract is up I am switching to Verizon FIOS.
I am tired of having to call these morons every month and tell them how to do their jobs. Maybe they should pay more than minimum and hire some Americans instead of third world dim wits.
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Well...Part III by Bob on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 12:43pm
Crook, thief whatever.
I don't work for any of those people. I am mildly in the entertainment business but only in the Non_profit sense. In one instance the non-profit is an organization, the other instance I am a non-profit artist because I am not good enough to make a profit. So I do web development for bread and butter and entertain for the fun of it.
I hat analogies because there are always holes in them, but here's one:
If you saw a car for sale for $20,000 but you didn't think it was worth that much you can't just take it and keep it without paying for it because you think it isn't worth what they are asking. I know you can't copy a car but the analogy is in the fact that the people selling crappy music and crappy movies have a right to charge whatever they want, and to do whatever they want with it.
This article isn't even about any of the AA's it is about the studios, the actual owners of the product.
Stop the argument that the product sucks so it is ok if you steal it. Again if people want to give away music or movies, I actually think it has merit. But don't go bitching about people not wanting to give you stuff that they sell.
If this model is outdated and I am not saying it isn't, let Darwin do its thing and keep bitching about the model but don't try and argue that you steal their stuff or rent it in a way that they don't allow because the content sucks.
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error error error by Bob on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 12:46pm
I hate analogies, to hat them would be silly...
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Re: Well...Part III by moe on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 1:11pm
Bob,
The major flaw with your analogy is that if I steal the car, you no longer have it. For movies or music, if I pirate the content you still have it and can still sell it but now I have a copy. There is no loss to you -- only a theoretical loss that maybe I would have bought the content, but now I have it for free. There are many problems with counting that theoretical loss as an actual loss.
Now, there are many, many people that would not resort to piracy if content distributors (not creators, but that's another argument) didn't try to lock down the content.
If I buy a movie or a CD and take it home I can play it in my entertainment center or my computer. Well, I've got a Video iPod and I'd like to listen to that CD and watch that movie on my iPod. The *AAs don't want me to be able to do that, so I have to break the DMCA law if I want to put the movie on my iPod.
Now, I can put the CD on my iPod. Then I get to work and want to put the music on my work computer. But, I can't do that because you can't copy music from the iPod to another computer. I could carry my CD collection with me wherever I go, but that's kind of a pain.
I've already paid my $15 for the CD and my $20 for the DVD. Back when it was cassette tapes & VHS, it was perfectly legal, fair use if you will, to make copies of my cassette & vhs so I could keep one at home, one in the car, one at work, and maybe one at the vacation home. But now doing so is illegal and the only thing that changed is the medium on which the content is delivered.
The content distributors used to be happy getting my $15 and my $20 for the content, and then I could use it as I saw fit. Now the content distributors want $15 and $20 for every device I'd like to use the content on.
Does that make any sense at all? Of course they want to make money, but this is ridiculous. This is the reason piracy is rampant. As other have mentioned above, these tactics have turned piracy from a small subset of user into the status quo of getting content.
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Re: moe by Bob on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 1:30pm
To fix the analogy (slippery slope) Do you consider it stealing to pay for one movie at a theatre and stay and see it twice? The theatre does -- and that is what I am saying. You "have" to follow the purchasing rules of the content owner or the distributor, because they didn't pay for anything that can be touched. They paid actors to produce art, and distibutors pay for the "exclusive" right to sell that art to people who want to see a copy of it.
Again if you don't want to pay to see a movie "cuz it sucks", don't. If you "Get it for free" by methods that the owner or distributor do not allow, you are stealing. Simple.
Other than that, I am not arguing against any of your points never was. I am for fair use, legal or not, it doesn't hurt the industry and I never said it did.
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Re: Re: moe by moe on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 1:39pm
Bob,
My biggest problem is that they changed the rules because the delivery medium changed. For some reason, Congress can't see that copying the DVD is the same as copying the VHS tape and they've made copying the DVD illegal.
Fair use is fair use. Both Congress and the distributors think that DRM will stop piracy -- it won't. Unlocking the content for honest users will reduce the amount of piracy. Most people out there aren't going to make a ton of copies for family and friends, or put content up on torrent sites. They just want to use the content.
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Fair use by Bob on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 1:48pm
Fair use seems to apply more to purchasing then renting which is the subsject of this article.
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Re: No problem by LJSeinfeld on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 1:48pm
DirecTV is no longer using TiVO units... so it may be longer than that.. But, there always is the "analog hole".
Same thing for the guy who says "why not just pull the HD and get the video from it".. well, if you could find it, you'd find it's encrypted.
DRM hurts consumers. Period. I guarantee that people that were going to share the content anyway will not be hindered in the least.
I don't understand how Hollywood expects to compete with filesharing, when the product you get through filesharing is VASTLY SUPERIOR to what Hollywood's pushing. I can watch it when I want on whichever device I wish. --being free of charge is just an added bonus
The MPAA and RIAA are just two rats on a sinking ship.
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Re: It's Piracy by LJSeinfeld on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 1:51pm
LOL. By the way, I just took a screenshot of your homepage... but it says "All Rights Reserved" at the bottom... Please don't send the black helicopters after me!
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Re: Re: moe by ljSeinfeld on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 2:01pm
Umm... nice try.... but at the theatre (and some of them have no problem with you setting in on the second showing), has a FINITE number of seats to sell, has to comply with local fire codes, pays insurance to cover you as a customer should you choke on a good-n-plenty, etc.
If you stayed over for a movie and by doing that cost the theatre a paying customer because they were out of seats, then you've injured the theatre. This does not hold true with watching a PPV movie/event twice. The cost associated in getting the data to you has already been paid for in the initial transaction.
How long until you're told that you're not allowed to *remembe*r a PPV event longer than 24 hours?
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lame by Layne on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 4:17pm
I really dislike when they limit what I can do with media I have purchased. I paid for the music/movie, hence I own it, so I should be able to do whatever I want with it. I will never buy another DVD again and I can guarantee I won't ever buy PPV. The harder they make it for me to do what I want with my media the more attractive piracy without restrictions looks. I'm positive others feel as I do and right now I hope the "hacker underground" gets much more mainstream making it easy for everyone to have an alternative to annoying, unnecessary limitations on media.
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by Rawalex on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 8:30pm
Pay Per View is just that, pay and view the movie when you want to view the movie. It isn't "pay per download" or "pay to own", just pay per view. The nature of the product is a license that runs from the start time to the end time, and nothing beyond that.
Time shifting is legal for material that comes without restriction (ie, over the air broadcasts) but PPV is a different animal. You are paying for both access and access at a specific point in time, not an unlimited personal use license (which is what over the air grants you) but rather a limited single use license.
DirecTV would in fact be well withing their rights to block PPV movies from the DVR altogether, but they are playing nice and giving you a pretty big window to enjoy your movie. If you didn't have time to watch the movie, why order it? If you wanted to watch it tomorrow, then order it on PPV tomorrow.
Perhaps you would like the studios to deliver you a DVD copy for the price of a PPV viewing?
Unrealistic expectations of the ignorant "data wants to be free" shills.
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Re: Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:27pm
The only problem with your logic, Bob, is that DirectTV's PPV movies are NOT on-demand.
Bob's an idiot; he can't understand the difference.
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Re: by Anonymous Coward on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:32pm
If you don't like it, vote with your wallet and spend your money elsewhere.
And spread the word about it so other people will know to spend their money elsewhere too. That's what's going on here.
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Re: Of all the things the entertainment idustry is by Anonymous Coward on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:38pm
for some reason this one seems reasonable,
And then you go on to state that you thought "anything PPV was live", thus proving that you didn't know what you were talking about. I guess anything might seem reasonable if you don't know what you're talking about.
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Re: possible workaround? by Anonymous Coward on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:39pm
what about pulling out the harddrive, and copying the movie off before the dvr deletes it!
One word: encryption.
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Re: Re: It's Piracy by Anonymous Coward on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:43pm
LOL. By the way, I just took a screenshot of your homepage... but it says "All Rights Reserved" at the bottom... Please don't send the black helicopters after me!
Too late. Your browser already copied it to cache. You may go turn yourself in now. Don't make Mike Burda come after you.
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Re: Re: Re: by Anonymous Coward on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:48pm
OK, now you're just being silly. :p
Hollywood started it!
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Re: Well...Part II by Anonymous Coward on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 9:53pm
Yes there are many ways to illegally enjoy movies good for you, you are a thief, whether you like it or not.
If you're talking about copyright infringement, that's not theft. People who go around calling it that are liars.
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Re: Well...Part III by Anonymous Coward on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 10:03pm
Crook, thief whatever.
Yeah, like lies are no big deal to you, huh?
I don't work for any of those people.
You've already shown yourself to be a liar and in my experience liars are often like alcoholics; they can't stop with just one. So when you say that don't you don't work for any of those people I find it very hard to believe.
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Re: by Anonymous Coward on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 10:06pm
Time shifting is legal for material that comes without restriction (ie, over the air broadcasts) but PPV is a different animal.
If you'd like to cite any court cases that say time shifting PPV is illegal then please do. Otherwise, I'm calling bullshit.
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Re: Re: moe by Anonymous Coward on Mar 20th, 2008 @ 10:10pm
You're really on a role. Truthfulness seems to have very little meaning to an industry shill.(reply to this comment) (link to this comment)
by Rekrul on Mar 21st, 2008 @ 3:34am
The real problem with this story is that it's only the tip of the iceberg.
Networks and studios know that they can't impose strict limitations on home recording overnight. If they did, the customers would revolt and other companies would spring up to offer people more choice.
The ultimate goal is to restrict and control ALL home recording. To do this, they need to gradually restrict how and what you can record. First they start with the PPV shows. Next it will be network specials, like the Grammy awards. Then there will be some shows that can't be recorded or kept, because they're "special". Finally, once everyone is using a networked DVR provided by their satellite or cable company, they will be able to impose strict rules on what can be recorded and for how long. Nobody will oppose them because at each step of the way, people will say "Oh well, there's so much other content that not being able to record that one thing won't matter." Once they realize that they're no longer in control of the recording, it will be too late because there won't be any other options.
If anyone thinks that I'm just being paranoid, let me ask you this; What would you have said if 30 years ago (for those who are old enough) I told you that in the future, all channels would have a logo permanently stuck in the corner of the screen, banner ads across the botton of the picture after every commercial break, end credits that you can't read because they're so small or go by so fast, more ads instead of ending music and a full 1/3 of every program devoted to commercials? Would you have called me paranoid?
What if 5 years ago, I told you that all of the above, with the exception of commercials, would also start happening on the premium movie channels? Most now have logos on the screen, Showtime and some others shrink the end credits and mute the music to show ads and Showtime even started putting banner ads across the bottom of the picture to advertise other shows.
When it comes to the studios and networks, they will go absolutely as far as people will let them. When they do one thing and people let them get away with it, they start working on the next step, and the next, and the next...
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Re: Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward on Mar 23rd, 2008 @ 9:34am
looks like most comments in this forum are from people who have no clue and need a realiry check. DirectTV has on-demand (look to be a new feature of the latest (and not so great) update) and, I have a PPV moview on my DVR for about 6 months now, just watched it again last night.
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Re: Re: Re: Well... by Mike on Mar 23rd, 2008 @ 11:22am
looks like most comments in this forum are from people who have no clue and need a realiry check. DirectTV has on-demand (look to be a new feature of the latest (and not so great) update) and, I have a PPV moview on my DVR for about 6 months now, just watched it again last night.
The announcement said this was going into effect in April.
So check back with us in May and let us know if you can still do that.
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by Anonymous Coward on Mar 25th, 2008 @ 12:23am
**cough** more BS
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Re: DTV sucks by Denise on Mar 28th, 2008 @ 1:14pm
I love Direct TV and if you think that this change isnt going to apply to DISH Network, then you are totally out ot lunch. The issue needs to be taken up with the movie studios not with the satellite providers or cable providers. They have to abide, unfortunately, by the rules of the studios......
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Re: It's not just DTV by SteveSBE on Apr 3rd, 2008 @ 6:48pm
Per "Trust me, we don't like it (that's not an official statement of DTV), but we pretty much have no choice if we want to keep our PPV provider contracts." My old company lowered their service level too and are now just also-rans. If DTV had any guts they would drop the PPV contracts. We record PPV movies to avoid wasting fuel and time trying to get a DVD from a local provider. We don't save the movie (the new DVR will not let us do that in HD). We would save the movie because we wanted to watch it but since our lives are so busy we might not watch it until a month later. It was convenience and I pay DTV for that convenience and want it back. We will vote with the wallet. I told DTV we will no longer watch PPV movies and when our contract expires will drop the service. NetFlicks or the like is a possible option but then again that gives a user unfriendly recording industry monies they IMHO do not deserve. Library rentals anyone?
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Re: Well...Part III by SteveSBE on Apr 3rd, 2008 @ 6:57pm
I don't steal it. I only want to watch the movie at my convenience and that's what DVRs provide. We are busy and we might watch a recorded move a month later since they don't hang around forever to pay per view a month later. It's the service I pay DTV for not the movie. They charge me for the movie too. I have told them we will refuse to use PPV from now on and will drop them and go back to the bad ol' free networks if needed. Their DVR is a piece of ***p anyways compared to the TIVO/DirecTV I had...but that's another story.
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by Anonymous Coward on Apr 4th, 2008 @ 10:05am
You all american sucks!!!
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Vote with your wallet -- have them disable PPV on your account by Fred Maxwell on Apr 7th, 2008 @ 8:10am
I registered my complaint with DirecTV and had them remove the ability to purchase PPV from my account. If enough people do that, it will hurt the movie studios as well as DirecTV. Then maybe they will, at the least, come up with a more reasonable compromise of, say, 2 weeks. It's asinine that I can't order a PPV and then have my girlfriend watch it, too, unless we are both able to see it that night.
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Direct TV Pay per view movies expiration by JR on Apr 7th, 2008 @ 4:42pm
I cannot believe the so-called "movie industry" is doing this. And that Direct TV is not taking a stand!! Do they not think this will hurt their business? Because of this, I have no reason to ever buy a pay per movie again!
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by NO MORE PPV on Apr 7th, 2008 @ 10:43pm
I WILL NEVER ORDER PPV AS LONG AS I LIVE THIS IS THE REASON
WE HAVE TO SUPPORT BOOTLEG I WILL RENT MY MOVIES AND RIP AND MAKE A COPY EVERY ONE SHOULD STOP ORDERING ALL MOVIES
THAT WILL BE A BIG LOSS TO THE MOVIE PEOPLE THE MOVIE PEOPLE JUST DONT GET IT WHO THE HELL IS GOING TO PAY 3.99
FOR A MOVIE THEY CANT KEEP ON THIR DVR THE REASON IS TO TIME SHIFT AND I TELLING ALL THAT THIS IS ONLY THE START WHATS NEXT YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO STORE HBO MOVIES AS WELL THAT IS COMING NEXT IF CABLE AND DIRECTV LET THIS HAPPEN
THE CABLE AND DIRECTV SHOULD STOP ALL PPV AS REVOLT
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Re: DirectTV by PPV on Apr 7th, 2008 @ 11:30pm
VERIZON FIOS USES DIRECTV AS THIR CABLE COMPANY
DID YOU KNOW THAT
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by ticked off on Apr 8th, 2008 @ 4:50pm
I have cancelled my ability to order PPV movies from Direct TV as well. I'll go back to renting DVDs.
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directv ppv dvr by steve on Apr 8th, 2008 @ 5:28pm
is dishtv doing the same thing?also can i record to dv or vcr?
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by Gray Mills on Apr 8th, 2008 @ 6:02pm
I will cancel all PPV as of now--will never order again.
Ruins the entire experience-especially the HD PPV movies which are much better than BluRay in my opinion.
DirectTv will suffer.
If this expands to premium channels--I will cancel service
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Re: Well...Part II by Mark on Apr 9th, 2008 @ 3:23pm
Here is a good example of why I won't be renting movies on DirecTV after April 15th. About a week ago, we rented American Gangster for $3.99 on DirecTV. It is a 2 1/2 hour movie. We started it Friday night but got tired about half way through. Since it was on our DVR, we knew we could resume at the very spot we stopped. It was 4 days before we resumed watching. When we finished the movie, we deleted it from the DVR...no need to keep it to watch again. With the new 24-hour policy, we would have watched half a movie and then we would have had to "rent" it again to watch the rest. Forget that. I do not pirate nor would ever encourage that. I try to be one of the honest customers. I will vote with my pocketbook. After April 15th, Netflix will get my movie rental dollars. I can keep the DVD for as long as I want, watch it as many times as I wish, and then return it for another. And it is less expensive to boot! Sorry DirecTv and Hollywood. Your new plan just cost you this customer.
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still, don't switch to dish by tracey on Apr 9th, 2008 @ 8:01pm
i think this is all total crap .. at least if u rent from a store you get 3-4 or 7 days .. 24 hours is stupid.
HOWEVER .. dish network might not have this policy .. but they also don't let you DVR PPV at all! they suck more.
but .. i won't be getting ppv from direct anymore. at least, not after the 15th ...
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Agree or disagree with the move... by Larry on Apr 11th, 2008 @ 10:09am
They're still taking something away from us. Seems to be the way of the world nowadays.
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Hollywood toadies by J. Thadeus Toad on Apr 16th, 2008 @ 7:02am
Anyone who agrees with what DTV and Hollywood is doing is either an employed blogger whose job it is to go onto websites and dispute customer claims of dissatisfaction, and there are hundreds of them that get paid to do this, or they are employed in the video rental or retail business. This is all about greed and preserving an archaic system of distributing entertainment content. Hack all providers. Steal what you can. They've been stealing from us for decades. The true cost of a DVD u=including rights and packaging is less than three bucks. Why do we pay an average of $19.00? Hollywood greed and our stupidity.
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Deleting Movies that have been paid for by Lois J. Gilder on Apr 28th, 2008 @ 8:53pm
Now you have decided that you will delete movies that we pay for after 24hrs. I record them to benifit me at my spare time and so I think you are beinhg unfair with this new policy that has come after the fact.
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Disconnected Directv after 14 years as a customer by Megadrone on May 2nd, 2008 @ 4:40pm
I was one of the original 5000 customers back in 1994. Today I disconnected Directv. I suggest that everyone cancel their service and go back to either cable or Dish (like they are any better). I just purchased a Tivo HD box. I also put up an outside antenna ( this new Digital OTA stuff is great ) The best part about it, it is free. The only thing these people understand is money. As soon as they start losing lot's of it they will start listening. The only one to blame is ourselves, we are letting them do all this stuff.
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DirectTV DVR Will Delete Pay-Per-View Shows by Vic Bradley on May 4th, 2008 @ 6:50am
I can't believe there are NO mentions of MythTV, arguably the BEST DVR on the planet, and the software is FREE! Take an old PC, put a $65 WinTV tuner card in it, Download the free bootable CD ISO image from www.MythBuntu.org and build your own DVR that skips Commercials, burns your Pay Per Views to DVD and LETS YOU KEEP WHAT YOU'VE PAID FOR! How about some new slogans here? How about "SNUFF Commercials & DRM with MythTV" ? Or: "Keep what you've paid for with MythTV" Or: "MythTV prevents DRM Abuse!"
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Expiring Pay Per View recordings by Vic Bradley on May 4th, 2008 @ 7:46am
It just occurred to me that whoever's behind these hairbrained ideas don't learn too much by past experience. How many of us remember the original attempt to expire DVD's after 3 playings? Does the term DivX ring a bell? Before it was the name of a video compression codes, it was the name for a self-expiring DVD disk promoted by Circuit City and (I believe) the MPAA. Doesn't this DirectTV DVR deletion smell like an attempt to resurrect the same idea? Don't these idiots realize it failed back then because people are too smart to throw their money away? Circuit City (who I've heard are in serious financial trouble) lost millions of dollars before they admitted defeat. NOBODY BOUGHT THEM!
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Re: i disagree...limited intelligence was behind this thought! by dchastain on May 4th, 2008 @ 8:17am
I have 9 kids in the house. We watch everything in intervals and groups over a week to even a year's time. I just had time, finally to watch Fly Boys that we recorded last July. Now my husband has watched it and next my boys will and maybe even the girls. If I had 24 hours in which to watch this movie we would never have seen the movie at all. We do not have the time to waste in front of the TV like others.
I loved PPV because it gave us the flexibility to view at our time and our convience. If someone saw a movie that they thought we might like it got recorded and when we had time we would watch it. If we really liked it we would by the DVD so we could add it to our library.
Now we will watch fewer movies, and as you might imagine, we will not go out to the movies as a family because of the over all cost (who of you would spend $60 to $100 a movie?). The movie industry may never notice, but I have 10 kids in all. What happens if they grow up with the same ideas.....fewer viewers....If they each have 5 kids rather than 10 like me that is 60 people watching fewer movies if any, and 110 if they all have 10 kids and so on through the upcoming generations.
PPV was a way of keeping those people interested. They lost me after I recorded 5 movies yesterday and lost them all. I have limited time and I watch the cost so I doubt I will find an alternative unless someone points one out to me. I will not buy a movie without previewing, and if I cannot preview for a reasonable cost, I won't.
I know that DirecTV has lost us and no one else will get our business either if they have all done the samething.
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Re: 24 hours is all you need...If you are a thief. by dschastain on May 4th, 2008 @ 8:20am
That is stealing someone's work. Why don't you take your neighbor's tools too? Oh, that was you.
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Re: Well... by Patwell on May 6th, 2008 @ 2:48pm
Thes Pay-Per View movies are NOT on demand. They have scheduled airings, and in some cases only show at ungodly hours.
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datebook? by customer who? on May 14th, 2008 @ 6:42pm
I hope Direct t.v. can produce the time to plan my schedule and run my life proficiently. I would like to apologize to Dana White and the UFC because I am not able to vacation over memorial day weekend and watch the fight monday night. Dana White should be pissed about losing money over this bullshiiiit
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datebook? by customer who? on May 14th, 2008 @ 6:43pm
I hope Direct t.v. can produce the time to plan my schedule and run my life proficiently. I would like to apologize to Dana White and the UFC because I am not able to vacation over memorial day weekend and watch the fight monday night. Dana White should be pissed about losing money over this communist policy.
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Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward on May 24th, 2008 @ 6:08pm
Your an idiot
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It's less than 24 hrs! by Premature Eradication on Jun 4th, 2008 @ 7:26pm
Okay, so we rented a PPV from DTV. Started watching it within their "smoking-crack-deadline" of 24 hrs. What happened? Well the friggin movie was deleted AS WE WERE WATCHING IT! Yep! So, not only do you have to start the damn thing before the 24 hr window expires, but you have to finish it in 24 hrs, leaving you about 21 hours after "purchase" to sit and watch your flick. BULLS**T.
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24 hour delete by ripped off again on Jun 22nd, 2008 @ 10:22am
This how I see it. If new subscribers to cable,dish or direct agree to those terms, Then live with it. I certainly did not. This 24 hr. deletion is not what I bought So where is the reduction in my monthly bill. Do we as consumers not have rights. Is it in my contract with Dish that they may take away benfits and not reduce my bill? Iam guessing that a royalty settlment between the providers and the movie industry would probably settled this whole situation. But the providers of course would rather screw the consumer one more time. Iam guessing but I think I am probably safe in saying 2/3rds of the households at least in this country have cable or a dish plus hotels and every other kind of buiness you can think of times what, probably an average of 2-3 hundred dollars a month per site and thats probably to low. How much money do these companies need. I pay $1200 a year. Let them pay the royalties and let us have our freedom.
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Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward on Jun 29th, 2008 @ 3:29pm
you are an idiot.
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Re: Re: Well... by ripped off again on Jul 2nd, 2008 @ 12:27pm
You sure like to throw the idiot word around. I see know idiocracy in my opinion. If your going to call someone an idiot have the guts say why, ANONYMOUS COWARD
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