Canadian Telemarketers Play The FUD Card On Do Not Call List
from the look-south,-people dept
Michael Geist points us to the news that telemarketing firms are coming up with bogus reasons why a Canadian Do Not Call List is dangerous. The latest is particularly ridiculous. They're afraid (no, seriously) that people will upload other people's phone numbers to the list -- and those people might actually want to hear from telemarketers, but will not be able to get their daily dose of dinner-time interruptions thanks to the nefarious uploaders. Seriously. Of course, there's an easy response to these claims by telemarketers. Just point out that telemarketers made similarly ridiculous claims prior to the US implementing a Do Not Call list a few years back, and nothing horrible happened then.
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Perhaps a better list would be the by Ajax4Hire on Mar 24th, 2008 @ 12:38pm
"Please call me with special offers at any time of the day" list.
I still find it hard to believe that a business can be made by un-solicited calls and emails. I am amazed that this kind of business not only exists but thrives and I am also amazed that people respond.
You would have to be a sad lonely person to use the telemarketer phone call as a way to connect with the human race.
Especially today with such wide-spread internet options.
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Re: Perhaps a better list would be the by Zach on Mar 24th, 2008 @ 1:30pm
I was completely behind your comment until the last line.
"Especially today with such wide-spread internet options."
I find it amazing that you think using the internet is somehow more social or personal than talking on the phone. I know many socially inept people who spend most of their time on their computers all day. At least a phone call would make them say something... ANYTHING.
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telemarketing by justin k on Mar 24th, 2008 @ 1:47pm
why cant people just say "NO"? we dont make laws AGAINST TV COMMERCIALS, AGAINST BILLBOARDS, AGAINST JUNK-MAIL, why should phone calls be banned? what makes a phone call SOOOO SPECIAL? this law is ruining the lives of countless people not making a living anymore. why? so your not bothered by a phone ring? what about when aunt sally calls when your eating, do you tell her never to call you back? or say "dont you know im eating" as many people do to telemarketers?
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Re: telemarketing by Heywood on Mar 24th, 2008 @ 1:53pm
What? If I tell Aunt Sally to not call between 6 and 7, she probably won't call back. You pricks will just call the same time the next night because you know I'm home. Why should I put up with annoying calls just so you can have a job? Seriously, fuck you.
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Re: Re: Perhaps a better list would be the by Anonymous Coward on Mar 24th, 2008 @ 1:54pm
People can be perfectly social online. Heck, even MORE social than they would be otherwise. Granted, you do lose the physical tip-offs and interactions, but many people get great fulfilment from socializing online. Go join a popular forum and then make your decision.
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Re: Re: telemarketing by Anonymous Coward on Mar 24th, 2008 @ 1:56pm
Yeah, they need to go get a real job, contributing something to this world.
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Re: telemarketing by Jim on Mar 24th, 2008 @ 1:59pm
You must be new around here (Society I mean... not this forum).
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Re: Re: Re: Perhaps a better list would be the by Larry on Mar 24th, 2008 @ 2:00pm
Better yet, join a forum and make it popular.
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Re: telemarketing by Chuck Norris' Enemy (deceased) on Mar 24th, 2008 @ 2:06pm
I think you just signed up for the '"Please call me with special offers at any time of the day" list.' Are you one of the lonely?
Let's think about your 'this law is ruining the lives of countless people not making a living anymore' statement. We should keep jobs just for the sake of jobs? This law may have cost some their jobs (I am pretty sure they found new ones) but it probably helped the telemarketing business by making their process more efficient. Now they don't waste time and money calling people who will not listen to them anyway. They now have a refined list to which they can focus their attention. They can also use all that wasted employee pay and use it more effectively.
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Re: telemarketing by fiona on Mar 24th, 2008 @ 2:07pm
you can turn off your tv, turn your head at billboards, filter your junk mail, but shouldn't we be entitled to one method of commuinication that is not violated by unwanted spam. I used to get 'cold called' during my babies' naps where they'd wake up, bathtimes (where I'd think I'd be getting an important phonecall), 8am when my children are sick and we have only just got them to sleep again. They certainly ARE bothersome, we used to get it 5+ times per day. At least your family and friends have a clue about when to ring and they have something to say that interests you.
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re: telemarketing by Josh H on Mar 24th, 2008 @ 2:09pm
It is becuase in addition to being unsolicited, telemarketing actually impairs the use of the device. For instance, those without call waiting (or using call waiting with the telemarketer) can miss a call due to the unsolicited advertisement. For cell phones, texting and incoming phone calls are charged to the consumer, so that they are actually paying to recieve unsolicited advertising. It is an unsolicited disturbance that can cost people money and time, and impairs the use of the device.
And it is not unique - there are laws banning spamming as well. Like telemarketing, the spamming interefes with the use of e-mail.
Another example - there are very hefty fines for unsolicited faxes. Same reason. If there were unsolicted faxes being sent, it would impair the use of the device (by not allowing or delaying transmission of legitimate, i.e. solicited, faxes).
Your examples are not applicable. There are laws cocnerning the places and manners billboard advertising can be used. You can't just put a billboard on your front lawn (or your neighbor's front lawn, for that matter). And TV commercials are actively solicited by the consumer - they choose to watch, and the commercials don't infringe on the use of the TV.
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Re: telemarketing by Douglas Gresham on Mar 24th, 2008 @ 2:11pm
I'm amazed your argument is that people have trouble saying "No" and this is an *opt-in* list for the express purpose of saying "No".
I also contest your assertion that it's taking away people's livings. Care to show figures? I work for Google, so I know a little about targeting advertising, and we know that you do much, much better by increasing relevance and decreasing the number of ads you show. We'd also say intrusive advertising to people who don't want to be advertised to actually does damage to the advertised business.
I'd also say that cold-calling is sufficiently intrusive and disruptive to be very different to the examples you give of allowed advertising, with the possible exception of junk mail.
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Re: telemarketing by Larry on Mar 24th, 2008 @ 2:16pm
Ok, you asked, so I'll try to explain...
"we dont make laws AGAINST TV COMMERCIALS, AGAINST BILLBOARDS, AGAINST JUNK-MAIL"
1. There are no laws against TV commercials because that is the "price" of the "free" content. Don't want TV commercials, don't turn on the TV. Heck, save a lot of money, no TV, cable/satellite, no electricity usage...PLUS, it doesn't EVER annoy you when it's OFF.
2. Actually, there are many laws on the books against billboards. Mostly having to do with placement and types of advertising allowed. Other than that, passing a comparable "law" that you seem to be advocating would equate to equal laws against other "driver visiblity" items such as...oh I don't know...TREES or MAILBOXES...
3. There are (US) Federal and State laws making SPAM illegal. Simply spoken to answer your "question" my PC doesn't "ring" during dinner to provide me with viagr@ offers OR Aunt Sally asking what to bring to the birthday party.
Telemarketers, Spammers, TROLLS...Jeez, just get off my planet.
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plenty of options by steve on Mar 24th, 2008 @ 2:19pm
the only people who get interupted by calls either have an option to block calls from people who are not on a list that they manage, or they can accept calls from strangers.
There are plenty of options to implement in either case.
Most people are 10 to 15 different kinds of "stupid", so it doesn't matter what can be done. Opt-in policies leave too many people with few to no options because they simply never hear about things.
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Re: telemarketing by James on Mar 24th, 2008 @ 3:03pm
You really are an idiot. Your comparison of advertising mediums fail. Television shows have commercials to pay for the content you are otherwise CONSUMING FOR FREE (sans electricity).
Billboards are a manageable (ie ignorable) neusance and sometimes very well do provide helpful information.
There are lists managed for/by the DMA if you do not wish to receive junk mail (it even saves their advertisers money).
Telemarketing phone calls on the other hand are an intrusion into a person's home. You will not find anyone except another whiney telemarketer who will feel sorry for you. The DO NOT CALL list is perhaps one of the best things the US Goverment has ever actually gotten done (and done right).
And as a public service.. REMEMBER (for those in the US) it is ILLEGAL for someone to make a telemarketing call to your cell phone. If they do this, you may sue them at $500 a pop.
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Re: telemarketing by Robert on Mar 24th, 2008 @ 3:48pm
That is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Telemarketers only get to keep their jobs if they make sales.
People who sign up for "Do Not Call Lists" are people who don't want to hear from Telemarketers and would not buy anything anyway.
What this law does is keep Telemarketers from wasting their time calling people who wouldn't be interested anyway, thereby improving their sales percentage and perhaps allowing them to keep their jobs.
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Simple solution - have people call in by Joe on Mar 24th, 2008 @ 5:20pm
Here's a pretty simple solution to this (stupid) claim.
People call a 'magic' number to activate their lines on the DNC list. This would be much harder to game.
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Re: telemarketing by BTR1701 on Mar 25th, 2008 @ 6:31am
> we dont make laws AGAINST TV COMMERCIALS,
> AGAINST BILLBOARDS, AGAINST JUNK-MAIL,
> why should phone calls be banned?
Because none of those things bother me in my home and force me to stop what I'm doing and attend to them.
> this law is ruining the lives of countless people
> not making a living anymore
Too bad. If they can't make a living any other way than by bothering people in their homes, then that's their problem. It's certainly not my obligation to turn over the peace and quiet of my home life to some phone operator just so they can "make a living".
> what about when aunt sally calls when your eating
Aunt Sally (and all my friends and family) know my well enough to know when it's appropriate to call me. Hence I'm rarely, if ever, bothered by their calls. Not so with telemarketers. On a typical day, I come home from work and find between five and ten messages on my phone's voice mail, most of which are the same pre-recorded messages about lowering my mortgage rate (I don't even have a mortgage) or reducing my credit card debt (I have no credit card debt). Their machines just keep calling over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. One of them has been going on for years now. And calling them to complain or ask them to stop does no good because then all you've done is just verify that your phone is a good number and that you're receiving their calls.
And that doesn't even get into the six or seven calls I get *after* I get home from work each night. Pollsters, surveys, vacation offers... it would be funny if it weren't so damned annoying. My home sounds like an office, the phone rings so often.
But hey, so long as someone needs to make a living, I should just suck it up, right?
Bite me.
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The filters on my VoIP line... by CHL Instructor on Mar 25th, 2008 @ 6:52am
I now have more than 200 numbers in my VoIP block-list (my VoIP number is the ONLY number I expose to the internet). Whenever a telemarketer calls me for the 2nd (and subsequent) time, they get a busy signal. My phonelogs show a few epsilon-minus telemarketers that attempt to call my number several dozen times.
If only there was some way to reach back through the phone line and neuter them so they can't reproduce...
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The guy who wants me to create an Allow List by JustMe on Mar 25th, 2008 @ 8:57am
Earlier in the stack someone (I assume a person working in the telemarketing industry) suggested that if we were so annoyed by these calls we should create a list of allowable phone numbers.
I'll be nice and say it isn't going to work. I'll even give you one (of about a million) of the reasons why it isn't going to work:
Your spouse gets in an accident while out of town. The local hospital / policeman / good samaritan needs to get in touch with you. Do you really think they will be on the allow list?
See, I was nice (for a change).
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by Fernando on Mar 25th, 2008 @ 9:03am
Nothing horrible for your viewpoint, perhaps. But there's nothing ridiculous about these claims: the American telemarketing industry did in fact implode.
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Re: by Mike on Mar 25th, 2008 @ 10:09am
Nothing horrible for your viewpoint, perhaps. But there's nothing ridiculous about these claims: the American telemarketing industry did in fact implode.
That's not quite accurate. While fewer people are involved in telemarketing, it certainly didn't create widespread unemployment as predicted. Instead, many in the telemarketing industry ended up shifting to offering call center services or other customer support offerings.
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Re: Implosion by BTR1701 on Mar 26th, 2008 @ 1:12pm
> But there's nothing ridiculous about these claims: the American
> telemarketing industry did in fact implode.
Good. That means their entire industry was based on annoying people who had no desire to receive their solicitations or to be their customers in the first place. Such an industry is nothing but an intrusion on society and needs to go away as fast as possible.
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