Bands Should Give Away Their Music With Every Concert Ticket Sold
from the get-them-hooked dept
Well-known music industry commentator Bob Lefsetz has wavered back and forth on the question of whether or not music should be free, but lately it seems that he’s gone completely into the “free” camp — which is nice to see. One of his latest posts explains why bands should figure out ways to give away their music with each concert ticket. As he points out, concert revenue is where most bands make their money these days, so you want to increase the value of those tickets as much as possible. And, generally speaking, many people go to concerts to hear the music they already know. So the more the band can make sure people actually know the band’s songs, the happier the fans are going to be at concerts (and the more they’ll be willing to pay).
Filed Under: bob lefsetz, business models, concerts, free music, music
Comments on “Bands Should Give Away Their Music With Every Concert Ticket Sold”
I think there’s a danger in one person proclaiming what everyone else should do. A free CD or download coupon with a paid concert ticket might work for some musicians, but for others, it wouldn’t work with their fan base.
Re: Re:
“I think there’s a danger in one person proclaiming what everyone else should do”
Take your own advice
yea yea and gas should be free, the internet should be free, stripers should be free yada yada yada
Re: Re:
only if… 🙂
Re: Re:
Johnny, welcome to the wonderful, paradoxical — and very real– , world of business economics.
The name of the game for the bands is maximizing the money in their pockets. If giving away music increases their overall revenue through concert sales, promotional merchandise, name recognition, etc., then it’s the logical thing to do.
As someone pointed out, the musicians get pathetically little of the money you shell out for a CD. So why not lose a little there to increase revenue from the high-profit parts of the business?
As a couple of other people pointed out it probably won’t work for every band. (Although the Grateful Dead seem to do well with a similar strategy.) However it’s clearly a viable strategy for a lot of bands.
A mildly terrifying heavy metal band whose drummer is a pal of mine (myspace.com/nekkrosis) did something similar, and threw copies of their EP into the crowd while they were supporting someone in Birmingham. They’ve since had a massively successful tour of their own and come to the attention of Factory Records, so clearly they’re doing something right.
Re: Re:
Yeah!!! do the right thing… I’m sure that after hearing about nekkrosis’ story Metallica will start to do the same…
Let’s change the world one unrepresentative anecdote at a time!!
Re: Johnny
definitely free strippers!
Re: Throwing CDs?
I assume that was Birmingham, UK and not USA as you did not mention some a’hole suing them for injury from one of the flying CDS. Mind you, did he do a risk analysis? Did he have third party indemnity cover for that action?
Isn’t it assumed that most people probably own the music of the bands that they’re paying to see live? I don’t go and buy concert tickets at random, and giving me free music won’t change that. And would it only be the music of the headlining band? Or would I be getting 4 free CDs with every ticket purchase? What would this do to album sales for people who don’t want to obtain the album by buying a concert ticket?
Re: Re:
Kill album sales dead, and increase band revenue
Ramblings from the rooftop
Occasionally, I am innondated by songs of virtue from across the street of the Seattle Art Museum. Tonight, I am privvy to the 75th anniversary celebration of the Seattle Art Museum, without paying the $275 cover.
Tonight, the songs that emminate are those of Bono.
Coincidence, I think not.
I could see fans being happy to receive a free download for buying a ticket. What if you were already a fan of the band and they gave out a few bonus tracks for ticket buyers only. I realize that the songs would end up available online for non ticket buyers eventually but it would still add value to the tickets, which is what the article claimed.
Think of it this way…
SCENARIO 1: You pay upwards of $20 for a stupid plastic disc, which is easily scratched and unrepairable BTW.
SCENARIO 2: You pay $40 to get into a concert and STILL get the contents of the stupid plastic disc. The environment wins because less plastic had to be manufactured and shipped, the band wins because they had to put up less funds to have the album pressed and all the costs associated. Who loses? Rich guys in suits who have no musical talent and no right to select what music is popular.
Re: Re:
Please don’t try to bring an environmental issue into this. Do you think it costs less to ship the plastic than it does to fuel MSG for a few nights, bring the celebrity, his gear, all those 40,000 people?
Don’t be silly.
Actually, this is a great idea.
They (the bands whom are playing at said concert) could but together songs, say one or two a piece, and offer a “cd” in form of digital download with the purchase. Or maybe a recording of show available a while after the tour is over. Just an extra incentive, or a gimick to keep them coming…..
I dont care whether the bands do it, I do it myself. I pirated the latest cds from opeth, dream theater, and between the buried and me, and I am seeing them all tomorrow and have no doubt I’ll be buying a t-shirt or two.
LOL. Hilarity Ensues.
Good luck.
What about giving a redeemable concert ticket away with each album sold. That way they get to know your music first, then come to see your next show, where you can sell them your next album with another ticket:)
This isn’t a bad idea. It would be really cool if you got a coupon to get a download or cd of the concert you saw. Obviously, that wouldn’t work for everyone, as the band would need a full recording setup. BUt, for some bands it would work. http://www.custompcmax.com
On the other hand
Go Springsteen! Go Bono! Man, my old man and mom loved Springsteen and wanted to be out this way right now. I’m sure they would have paid to see what I see today. Man.
Thanks for including me. I won’t soon forget it.
Not a bad idea, but...
… I don’t enjoy concert atmospheres. They’re crowded, loud, usually uncomfortable in their seated, and someone is always smoking pot if they’re outside… I’ll sit in my pajamas and listen to music, I take my mp3 player to Wal-Mart, I make alot of mix CDs for my mini-van but no concerts for me, thank you.
Conversely, I spend LOTS of money on mp3 downloads from Amazon, so I think I’m doing my part for the musicians. 🙂
Re: Not a bad idea, but...
Rose, you’re, quite frankly, an asshole if you think that buying from Amazon is “supporting” the artist. The artist sees a tiny fraction of what you pay on sites like iTunes and Amazon. The corporate entity takes most of that.
The industry should put the music online for free as a way to promote the artist, then collect on merchandice and concerts. People that go to concerts aren’t going to change their concert habits based on the availability of music and how they acquire it; they’ll keep on going to concerts. The difference now is that more music will be heard by more people, which will, in turn, attract more concert goers. Not to mention, the industry would stop wasting its money on ridiculous lawsuits, which alone would probably make up for the difference in revenue lost in not selling cds, considering they wouldn’t have to pay to get them made anymore.
That’s a long thought (and sentense), but it’s the solution to this “crisis” in the music industry.
Re: Not a bad idea, but...
don’t enjoy concert atmospheres. They’re crowded, loud, usually uncomfortable in their seated, and someone is always smoking pot if they’re outside… I’ll sit in my pajamas and listen to music, I take my mp3 player to Wal-Mart, I make alot of mix CDs for my mini-van but no concerts for me, thank you.
The three or four concerts I’ve been to in my life have created some of my best memories. Now, I have a jones for the best seats in the house, so I don’t do bleachers and I’d stay home before I ever accepted a ticket in the nosebleed section. I would say that I’ve been to far fewer concerts than anyone else I know, but the ones I’ve been to were the best that they could be. Treat yourself just once in your life to the best concert seat in the house. You won’t regret it.
Re: Re: Not a bad idea, but...
I live in Oklahoma. The best seat in the house is still cramped and uncomfortable, unless I sit in the club section which is too far away to see or hear anything. I’ve been to alot of concerts in my life and when I was younger I found that kind of atmosphere fun and I guess now I’m just grumpy at the young whippersnappers in my way. 🙂 Either way, not going to a concert.
Honestly, I don’t even generally *like* live music. I prefer the ‘*perfect* version that usually accompanies the albums… (You know, the kind with nobody yelling in the background.)
Re: Re: Re: Not a bad idea, but...
Sorry, I meant to mention in Oklahoma, where the best we have is the Ford Center. I could drive to Dallas, but I’m really not interested enough in live music to drive four to five hours to Dallas and then back again. 🙂
Re: Re: Re: Not a bad idea, but...
Understood. 🙂 I have to confess that while I’m no grump, I did walk out during one of those fantastic concerts, at the beginning, when an opening band called The Wallflowers was the opening act. It was loud – to me -and the music was terrible, so I went out into the lobby and bought a soda and hung out until the main act was ready to go on stage.
Later my friends – and some of their teenage children – were shocked when I told them. ‘You walked out on the Wallflowers? Do you KNOW how great of a band they are?’ So yeah taste is all subjective, I was just annoyed that good time was being wasted with an opening act that stunk, when I paid good money to see a real star.
@8
Way to lead the way. Bands won’t make money off of recorded music (they make very little as it is) the music will just be an incentive to see them live or buy their t-shirts or pay for them to play at your wedding. The only way that bands will get paid for their music is if we come up with a licensing fee charged by the ISPs. That’s a totally stupid idea so just go and buy a t-shirt.
How to make money??
I’m with #13 here – I hate the concert atmosphere. Just not my thing. I enjoy the music, though.
I also don’t buy concert or band shirts.
So my question becomes – where would a band make money from the types like me if they’re giving the music away for free?? I don’t want to be called a “leach” because I’d gladly (and do) pay for the music. If the music is free, then there’s no possibility of the band making money from me.
I feel quite comfortable saying that there’s others like me, too.
And what about bands that no longer tour because they’ve broken up, dissolved, on hiatus, etc.??
Re: How to make money??
So my question becomes – where would a band make money from the types like me if they’re giving the music away for free?? I don’t want to be called a “leach” because I’d gladly (and do) pay for the music. If the music is free, then there’s no possibility of the band making money from me.
Well, a few points in response to this.
(1) No one said this was the *only* part of the business model. It’s just one part. Take a look at what Trent Reznor, Jill Sobule, Maria Schneider and others have done in embracing free music and putting together a much wider business model behind it.
(2) There will always be some people who just don’t pay, and that’s fine. Just as there are some people who read this site and never click on an ad. Do I think you’re “leaching” on this site? No, of course not. The trick isn’t to get everyone to pay, it’s to get some people to pay by giving them something worth paying for.
(3) You say you’re willing to pay for the music, but if every other band out there is giving away their music for free, and this one band is charging, they’re not going to get very far.
And what about bands that no longer tour because they’ve broken up, dissolved, on hiatus, etc.??
What about jobs you no longer have? Do you still get paid for them?
Re: How to make money??
I’m sure they appreciate your 13 cents too.
Roflmao, so what am I supposed to do? Find their addresses and send them a check? Moreover, how is it my fault that they don’t get as much money as they would like? They agreed to sell thier product for x amount of money, and they received x amount of money. End of story. If it’s not enough, do it a different way.
For instance, the business models that you’re complaining about were created pre-Internet, when getting heard by people was the issue. Now, it’s no longer an issue. Lilly Allen put herself on MySpace and YouTube before she was picked up by a record label, and she’s huge now. But if course, the her label treats her so horribly, I know from reading the constant ‘poor artist’ comments that she must have been tricked into signing by her label and she’s now absolutely broke.
I definitely agree that the industry-typical business model is broken. Lily Allen just goes to show that the publicity and coverage are available without a label, and Radiohead and other bands shows that the money is there without the label. Now we, the customers, just have to wait for the artists to stop complaining and start changing. If these artists chose to sell thier music from thier own website, they would receive 100% of the profits, and I’d be happy buying there as well.
There are probably dozens of innovative ways to make money from the music industry without the labels. When the artists decide to make these changes, we will start to see them. Free content to promote merchandising is one of them, but I’d like to think that we’re going to see more and better ideas (each of which is a ‘solution’) come out of this industry.
I don’t want merchandise and I don’t like concerts. So it seems like, in my case, I’ll be getting thier very vaulable product for free. And I’m an asshole for saying I’m happy to keep on paying for it? Keep thinking, buddy.
I agree
If a band was to give away their newest CD, I’d be more than happy, I’d be thrilled!! Buying a CD costs money, but going to a concert is something I enjoy spending money on, and getting a free CD makes me more excited and willing to buy a ticket.
Yes – buy the CD at the store and support the recording company – who cares about the band – that’s what this is all really about… It’s not like the recording company can stay alive without the artists… The same cannot be said in reverse.
Of course there will be resistance to an idea like this.
Recording companies – with new technology are almost as obsolete as the CD’s are now.
I have a new car Stereo – never put a single CD in it – don’t need to.
@ #4 – No, it’s not assumed. Support your local music scene. You don’t have to drop $50 on a ticket to hear good music. God forbid you should listen to something that doesn’t get radio airplay.
I wouldn’t expect any band to start handing out CDs at a concert, selling CDs and merch at their concerts is how they make most of their money. And, I think the price of the ticket is for the show, and that’s good enough. But, if they gave me a free download with every CD or shirt I buy at a show then they stand a better chance of selling more merch.
Dumb
Dumb, dumb, dumb. All of the costs of buying, shipping, managing, and distributing CDs will simply be factored into the cost of a concert ticket.
Net result? Higher prices.
And yes, you could use a coupon or download or something similar, but that’s taking money away from your label, which in all likelyhood isn’t going to be too pleased with the idea, and will want something in return. Like part of your ticket sales.
Net result? Higher prices.
Compensation is Varied
Mike quote:
“What about jobs you no longer have? Do you still get paid for them?”
Valid payment systems that pay after the job is over:
1. I let go a person from my employment. They no longer have the job any more. They collect unemployment (which I pay as employer) for 6 months or so. Here is a regular job that has ended and no work is being done and the person is being paid. Would you consider this to be valid?
2. Draw against commission. Someone does outside advertising sales and is paid minimum wage. They bring in a couple of new clients that they are contracted to be paid a commission based on a percent of the ads sold for a period of one year and then nothing is owed. The sales person quits after 2 months and continues to be paid the commission as per the contract for the next 10 months even though they are not working in that job. Would you consider this to valid and proper?
3. You are a lawyer and take on a case on a contingency basis charging noting to the client. You do a couple filings and do hardly any more work on it. 2 years later you get news to case is going to be settled because the company that the suit was filed against is being sold and is clearing out all its nuisance litigation pre-sale. Once again no work or job is being done but money is made. Would you consider this to be valid and proper that the lawyer gets paid?
4. Tech companies issue stock options to employees to attract top talent when money is tight. Someone leaves the company after vesting and no longer works there. Subsequently there is an IPO and that prior employee nets a ton of money. Would you consider this to be valid and proper?
5. My father retired from a large company and gets a pension, social security, and lifetime health insurance. Would you consider that to be valid and proper even though he is no longer doing that job?
6. I could present a description of how some of your income from Techdirt is unearned (meaning from investments of time and money or other people’s labor) but I would be guessing a little too much.
7. Not a complete list- add your own examples if you wish.
I fail to see how your and other posters continued assertions that when a job stops, payment should stop has any validity based on the above even cursory sketches of the myriad and creative models for how people can be compensated (after the job is over) even in normal jobs. I would ask your readers to consider if the above models are sufficient (and even beneficial) for regular industry then why should they be considered off limits for creative types (songwriters, bands, etc)?
Re: Compensation is Varied
1. I let go a person from my employment. They no longer have the job any more. They collect unemployment (which I pay as employer) for 6 months or so. Here is a regular job that has ended and no work is being done and the person is being paid. Would you consider this to be valid?
Gov’t pays unemployment, not your last employer. Nice try.
2. Draw against commission. Someone does outside advertising sales and is paid minimum wage. They bring in a couple of new clients that they are contracted to be paid a commission based on a percent of the ads sold for a period of one year and then nothing is owed. The sales person quits after 2 months and continues to be paid the commission as per the contract for the next 10 months even though they are not working in that job. Would you consider this to valid and proper?
This is paying out your contract, it’s not continually paying you any time your work is used.
3. You are a lawyer and take on a case on a contingency basis charging noting to the client. You do a couple filings and do hardly any more work on it. 2 years later you get news to case is going to be settled because the company that the suit was filed against is being sold and is clearing out all its nuisance litigation pre-sale. Once again no work or job is being done but money is made. Would you consider this to be valid and proper that the lawyer gets paid?
That’s catching up on payment for work done. That’s not payment after you are no longer on the job.
4. Tech companies issue stock options to employees to attract top talent when money is tight. Someone leaves the company after vesting and no longer works there. Subsequently there is an IPO and that prior employee nets a ton of money. Would you consider this to be valid and proper?
That’s an ownership stake and it’s in exchange for the work done (stock grants are over time, you don’t keep earning more after you leave the company). There is no additional compensation after the work is done.
5. My father retired from a large company and gets a pension, social security, and lifetime health insurance. Would you consider that to be valid and proper even though he is no longer doing that job?
Social security, of course, is gov’t paid again. Not sure what kind of pension he has, but most pensions these days are defined contribution, not benefit, so you’re actually not getting compensated, really. Basically, money was put away for you that you’re now earning interest on — that’s not getting compensated after the fact — that’s just interest on compensation when it happened.
So… you haven’t shown an example where someone continues to get paid every time their work is used after they’ve left their employer. What you’ve shown is either gov’t payments which you pretend are from the company, or a misunderstanding of compensation structures, or confusing ownership with compensation.
So… try again?
Dumb
I have to agree with Michael Long.
I have little respect for a solution until I know what it costs, and any product without a pricetag is wrong. From my side, I don’t choose a solution until I look at it in relation to the cost– for only then can I fully determine it’s worth.
Understanding this, I did a little research and was shocked that some ticket company may charge fees upwards 30% of the ticket value. It’s no wonder why no one tours!
What may hold some promise is an increase in technology throughout the product’s value chain. For example, if an operational gain could be realized thru internet-based ticket sales instead of traditional routes, then there may be an opportunity to sell content at time of ticketpurchase as an up or cross sell.
Using this concept, I could see two opportunities-
Ticket sellers could add content to their product catalog
AND
Content sellers could add tickets to their product catalog
In relation to the first opportunity, I could see this value-add working nicely with, say the ticketmasters of the world, or even one of the many Fandango, movies.com, or similar properties to sell movie soundtracks etc.
In relation the the second opportunity, iTunes, napster, etc would be a great distribution channel for concert tickets. It’s possible they already have a profile based on your music tastes, and location (billing) information along with CRM and campaign management tools. But when it comes to attracting the prime customer segment, an iTunes customer may be the crown jewel. They seem to attract a more prime customer unlike like the smörgåsbord customer of some of the other places. The best solution would probably be web services-based so it didn’t lock customers into a specific platform– This would allow a fan to buy tickets on iTunes as well as Zune Marketplace, etc etc.
thats what ive been saying!
ive been saying this for years. give away your cds and songs for free and get the consumers money at the ticket booth on your summer tour. its so much easier that way. you dont make squat on cd sales anyway, the moneys in merchandise and concert tickets.
I've been saying this for years
The VALUE created for the consumer by a musician is when he/she PLAYS the music. Why we think someone should get compensated millions of times for recordings of a single performance is quite absurd. Charge money for your performances and give away the recordings for free. The media is basically like a piece of memorabilia (although Disney does quite well on memorabilia sales) rather than the primary means of income.
Now, does this translate to, say, authors? It’d be hard to justify that someone would have to write a novel in front of an audience to make their money. So, obviously, there are some important differences between the PERFORMING arts and other types of art/expression, at least as far as business models go. So, let’s just leave it at musicians for _this_ debate.
Free Music With Concert Tickets
Why shouldn’t all music be free? Record companys make money on CD sales bands make money on ticket sales. Radio is free so I can hear it for free, just not hear it when I want to for free? Truth is most musicians and or bands are egomaniacs who would perform for free even if they didn’t have some recording contract. Art should be free. These bands make enough on concert tours that they could easily end world hunger, yet greed tells them to sue anybody who gets a copy of one of their songs for free. F**% them and the donkey they came to town on.
Free Music With Concert Tickets
Why shouldn’t all music be free? Record companys make money on CD sales bands make money on ticket sales. Radio is free so I can hear it for free, just not hear it when I want to for free? Truth is most musicians and or bands are egomaniacs who would perform for free even if they didn’t have some recording contract. Art should be free. These bands make enough on concert tours that they could easily end world hunger, yet greed tells them to sue anybody who gets a copy of one of their songs for free. F**% them and the donkey they came to town on.
Re: Free Music With Concert Tickets
Because they believe that anybody getting a copy of one of their song is a leecher and deserved to be punished?
Human morality have a funny way of skirting economic sense and moral/ethical code.
Don’t let that get to you. We’re still in a transition phrase when it come to adapting. So we’re still in the process of getting rid of the incompetent businessmen. When this is over, there will probably be nobody saying copying musics is stealing.
Re: Free Music With Concert Tickets
“Art should be free.”
Do you work for free? Artist have to eat, too.
Regardless, bands already give their music away with tickets. They call the giving away a ‘concert.’
Re: Re: Free Music With Concert Tickets
“Give away…”?? Ok, if you call $100-$200 for a ticket “give away.” Don’t know too many that would agree with that!
A Terrible Idea
The majority of a ban’s fanbase already owns the band’s music. The submitter even realizes that this will allow bands to charge more for concerts. I’m paying an exorbitant amount of money to see the band live, not to double pay for music I already own.
Get off your high horse
The only “should” anyone “should” do is de-program themsleves of the word “should”.
We are all free to choose. Choose to buy, eat, even kill.
I choose to do or not do these things, and so “should” eveyone else 😉
It Works.
It Works.
It works. Grateful Dead were first, allowing fans to record from the audience and sometimes patch in to the soundboard. Phish did it, Widespread Panic still does, RatDog does, Phil and Friends does, and these bands sell out(sold out in the case of the Dead and Phish)night after night after night. Now, can anyone name a single top ten hit any of these bands had except for “Touch of Grey” by the Grateful Dead?. No because there weren’t any. By playing a different set list every night and improvising on their songs in concert, and by allowing the free trade of their concert tapes, these bands all built a rabid live following. Plus, it screws the bootleggers. Why pay for a crappy concert tape when you can get a better sounding one from your buddy for free?
Done on a larger scale by Radiohead and Nine Inch Nails already.
Doesn't anyone here have a good indie scene in thier city?
I feel bad for those that don’t have a thriving indie music scene around them. It sounds like most posts are talking about arena bands. I’d personally rather eat glass than listen to corporate radio for more than a few minutes. Support your local scene if you have one. Check out DiscoverOurBand.com for a diverse range of indie bands.
Wait...bands?
Whether or not bands make money isn’t the issue. It’s whether or not the record companies are making money. That’s why the RIAA is around and that’s why we have to deal with DRM-infected MP3’s if we actually want to be honest and purchase them.