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Lawyer Who Sues Yelp Admits He Had No Idea About Section 230 Safe Harbors
from the great-moments-in-lawyering dept
Last week, we wrote about a defamation lawsuit over a review on Yelp, which seemed to backfire -- bringing a lot more attention to the negative review than if left alone. That case actually was settled soon after, but yet another defamation lawsuit has been filed by yet another person -- this time a dentist -- over a negative review. There are a few things worth commenting on about this lawsuit, but the big one that caught my attention is that the lawsuit was filed both against the couple who wrote the review... and against Yelp.
Now, as pretty much everyone knows around here, filing against Yelp is a big no-no. Yelp is clearly protected by section 230 safe harbors that make third party service providers immune from liability for actions of their users. This is pretty widely known among anyone involved in anything having to do with internet law... but was not known by the lawyer who filed the suit. In fact, the lawyer admits in the article above that he "wasn't aware" of the law and will probably drop the suit against Yelp now that he knows about it. But, it certainly raises questions about the lawyer if he was totally unaware of a key piece of internet legislation before filing such a lawsuit.
Then, there's the bizarre response from the dentist, replying to the point that Yelp lets the service providers directly contact those who write negative reviews to try to clear up the problem. The dentist says: "I would be very upset and would not know what to say to them." Fascinating. So, rather than talking it out as adults and clearing up any misunderstanding (and from the sound of it, it was a basic misunderstanding), she jumps straight to the lawsuit stage? She doesn't know what to say to them, but has no problem dumping a lawsuit on them. Isn't America great?
Reader Comments
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Both the dentist and the lawyer are friggin' idiots and neither should have either of those high-paying jobs.
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Re:
I hope neither one tries to sue Engadget for you calling them an idiot :D
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This is pretty widely known among anyone involved in anything having to do with internet law...
I could has a law practice?
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You can has!
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Note to self
Note to self...
always use fake information when writing reviews online.
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"I woundn't know what to say to them, so I sued them"
This sounds like something out of one of those hilarious radio adds on Grand Theft Auto.
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Do people really use those to find a Dr. or Dentist? I can see a restaurant or hotel review. But Healthcare is different.
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Re:
Why? I'd say it's far more important to get an idea of the competency of a healthcare professional than a restaurant...
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Internet Defamation
Internet defamation is a niche area that many lawyers know little about. I am not surprised that this lawyer, let alone any other lawyer would not know about the Communications Decency Act. If you ask 100 lawyers what it is, I bet less than 5 would know. Further, I think it's a bit misleading to say that, "Yelp is clearly protected by section 230 safe harbors that make third party service providers immune from liability for actions of their users." This is an example of a blanket statement in an area of law that is changing, and which, unfortunately, gives false comfort to unsuspecting internet users. Mark my words: the CDA will not be as expansive as it is today. Reviewer beware.
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Re: Internet Defamation
Sounds like the dentist should have used some kind of review site to check out the lawyer...
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Shake Down
I have seen more than one instance where a negative Yelp review was intended to shake down the reviewed party for free services in exchange for retraction or amendment to the original review. I think blanket protection to Yelp or other services providers is dangerous as there needs to be a way to force service providers to address such abuse.
I am in no way making a judgment on this case but the damage caused by a service provider not investigating or monitoring such abuse can be significant.
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Re: Shake Down
This is definitely a problem, but where do you draw the line? Once ONE user gets sued for defamation or liable or anything else that can be tied to a negative review, that opens the field up to all sorts of law suits from other companies with bad reviews...then people become afraid to be honest, then the whole system is screwed.
Maybe it should be up to the service provider (Yelp, in this case) to mediate and make sure the two parties can come to an agreement - not involving free services, or completely removing the negative review, but instead maybe just having the user modify the review, taking out words like "dishonest practices" and other more aggressive claims, and just stick to, "this place sucks, don't go there" and give it 1 star.
I don't know, it's going to be interesting to see how this issue pans out over the coming years. Certainly could make or break the review sites...
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Re: Re: Shake Down
If the user believes the service provider engaged in dishonest practices, why should they be forced to remove that language? Doesn't it make a review site less valuable if you're only allowed to say certain things? Or not allowed to say certain things?
I think the dentist (or whoever) should be allowed to respond on the site. If they go crazy and put in all caps profanity or some such, they're shooting themselves in the foot and get what they deserve. If they offer a reasoned counterpoint or even an apology and offer of recompense of some kind, they'll come off well. Perhaps even get creative - come on in, mention this bad review for a 10% discount. If the service provider has nothing useful to say in response to the review, I think that should be the end of the story (although of course they always have the option to sue, regardless of the web site's policies and practices).
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sue happy
anyone can sue anyone else, but they may then be counter sued for REAL damages.
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A judge should send them back to negotiation
.
If I were the judge assigned the case (and I've seen this happen in court), I'd first ask,
"Have you tried to resolve this with each other?"
If the answer is, "No," as the dentist seems to say, then I, as judge, would reschedule for a month, letting the parties know in the strictest terms that I'm miffed and don't like being used as the first line of communication between parties. If the case is not dropped by the month, I'd want a very complete explanation of the attempt to resolve. Then the case could proceede.
It really is up to the judge how silly and inappropriate these things can become.
However, I've also seen judges complete loose it and act on a clear misunderstanding (to coin a phrase!), and I've also seen judges "play" with a case no end for their own entertainment.
So it goes both ways, er, all ways:
- silly plaintiffs,
- silly lawyers,
- silly judges,
- silly laws.
It's never ending. People are like that. Always have been. Always will be.
People.
Can't live with 'em, can't sue without 'em! ;-)
.
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Earlier: "... the damage caused by a service provider not investigating or monitoring such abuse can be significant ..."
Same with the phone company versus phone fraud, the booze and car companies and drunk driving, and so on.
Sorry.
Free speech = responsible speech, and the service provider didn't do the talking!
.
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Law
This is a stupid story.
If existing laws are not challenged, how do you think changes or a presidence is set?
He should continue to sue Yelp for harboring and hosting liars, stalkers and fake reviewers.
Perhaps the safe harbor laws needs a second look for such behavior on behalf of the host who uses those bad reviews as a way to sell advertising by offering to remove them or push them to another position on the web page.
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The cartel
Dentists are members of a state enforced cartel. They don't have to talk it out as adults. Physicians and dentists are using their monopoly powers to try to squelch any publicly expressed objections to their services. There is even a company, Medical Justice, which provides physicians with a contract that, if signed by new patients, prevents them from criticizing the doc on the Internet. If the patient won't sign, the doc refuses to see the patient.
http://www.modernmedicine.com/modernmedicine/Modern+Medicine+Now/Safety-net-Doctors-cont ract-with-patients-to-avoid/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/563269?contextCategoryId=40145
This sort of contract would be acceptable if the market for medicine were free and consumers had power. But doctoring is a state-imposed cartel, so consumers already have but slight power, and this contract reduces it further. Imaging if all retailers were to make as a condition of sale that consumers could not make negative comments about them.
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lawyer suing yelp
The physician or dentist is prevented from commenting on patient care due to privacy laws which prevent patient protected information from being divulged. Therefore they can not respond online to any allegation that patient care has been compromised. It is therefore open season on all practitioners. The result will be that sensitive people will leave the profession. What will be left will be professional business people who will view these negative reviews as simply the cost of doing business.
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It's time some of these people to find a lawyer, perhaps an injury lawyer ...here's an attorney directory for them....
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What an Idiot
What an idiot. It looks like this lawyer needs an of his own!
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Leo, with his fancy degree, could help Dr. Taitz. Will he? Heck no. If anything, he would try to get her to do things more traditionally and status quo, rather than helping her create such incredible and noteworthy legal strategies. Leo would hinder Dr. Taitz, and no one wants that. lawyers
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Yelp is responsible
Yelp is responsible because they continually remove positive reviews and keep the bad ones. Especially, if they are calling you weekly for money. I've had 10 positive reviews removed but one negative review stays up no matter what. They even double listed the one negative review and had it count towards the total stars. I am all for open speech but they are manipulating the reviews and affecting businesses. I did a screen shot of my listing to prove they are double listing. By the way, the positive reviews started dropping like flies when they started to call for money.
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Some Lawyers are a joke
The lawyer who sparked this might not specialize in internet law, and probably doesn't. The fact that he went ahead and filed a lawsuit without even doing any research however is pretty sad. He must have been bored.
In response to Janet- yes, Yelp can be quite the entity to work with.
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