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Congressional Rep Wants To Put Internet Trolls In Jail
from the well,-that's-an-idea dept
Last year, the lawsuit against Lori Drew got plenty of attention. It involved the sad story of a girl, Megan Meier, who ended up killing herself after a "friend" she met on MySpace ended their friendship in a rather rude fashion. It later turned out that the "friend" wasn't a real person, but a made up individual, created by a former friend of the girl, that girl's mother (Lori) and an employee of Lori created the person (they claim) as a way of finding out what Meghan was saying about Lori's daughter. The whole story is quite sad, obviously, and suggests incredibly poor judgment on Lori's part. However, was it illegal? The initial analysis was not at all. However, prosecutors then twisted computer hacking laws to charge her, and she was eventually found guilty of misdemeanor computer hacking for creating a fake person on MySpace. This ruling was troubling for a variety of reasons, including the fact that it's now quite easy to make anyone a criminal via terms of service. Also, the fact that it actually is likely to put more kids at risk.
That particular case was distorted by a few issues, involving the fact that Lori was an adult while Meghan was a child. If the MySpace friend "Josh" had been a real teen, would the same outrage have happened? I had a friend in high school kill himself after his girlfriend dumped him. Should she have been charged with a crime?
However, with emotional cases, come bad legal precedents and bad laws. Missouri (where this happened) already rushed through an "online harassment" law, and now it looks like we may get the federal equivalent. Rep. Linda Sanchez has introduced a cyberbullying law (named after Meier) that could put people in jail for up to two years for online communications "with the intent to coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause substantial emotional distress to a person... to support severe, repeated, and hostile behavior."
Yes, this effectively makes online trolling a crime. It's difficult to see how this gets past even the most basic First Amendment review, but that won't stop politicians from grandstanding over it.
Reader Comments (rss)
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Does this mean no more Weird Harold?
Maybe that's why we haven't seen him around in a while.
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Give me liberty of give me death
First Amendment will put a stop to this asap. Bad bill by bad politicians.
Bullying is not Trolling, there is a big difference and these pea brained politicians and prosecutors will be schooled by the Constitution, then should be run out of office.
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Laws should not be this subjective
"with the intent to coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause substantial emotional distress to a person... to support severe, repeated, and hostile behavior."
I wonder if doing this in person is any different. If not, there is every likelihood that the Mormons will go to prison for their Prop-8 propaganda hate-crimes.
Now THIS... THIS is trolling! :)
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Is it really that common for american teens killing themselves over bad sentimental relations? You guys have issues...
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Re:
I agree. I'm in favor of suicide, abortion, euthanasia, etc. etc.
Whatever keeps the highways moving and uncongested.
/sarcasm
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Good luck with that
Linda Sanchez is fat and ugly.
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If Megan was your kid, would you still feel ok with what Lori Drew did?
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"If Megan was your kid, would you still feel ok with what Lori Drew did?"
See, that has become the problem with US law. We've all turned into a bunch of pansies. FEELINGS should have nothign to DO with the law, for christ's sake. There is illegal, and there is not illegal.
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Re: Good luck with that
And she rapes mosquitos. Constantly.
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Lame-ink-seeker
Just another lame attempt by a politician to get some ink.
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If it will make Weird Harold and Angry Dude eligible of prison butt-rape I might have to through my principles in the trash and support the bill.
;)
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It's despicable. It's horrible. It makes me want to puke. But she DIDN'T BREAK ANY LAWS.
I would think it would have been better trying to inform everyone possible of what her phone number, home address, email addresses are so she can constantly get hate mail and calls from people all over the world telling her what they think about her.
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The Drew case wasn't a case of peers - it was an adult versus a youth. That's wrong and needs to be addressed in that context, not in a general "harassment" law.
Would it have been different in the "guy" had really been a teen and not an adult's women out to intentionally mislead a teenage girl? I'm only guessing, but I suspect the outcome would have been different. Though maybe not: if the guilty or not guilty verdict were based solely on emotional impact, it might still have come out the same.
Also...two years seems a little steep for someone dropping by a blog and leaving a stupid reply (troll).
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Have we lost our humanity? Perhaps the ultimate laws that charged Lori were "twisted", but justice was done in the end. The ultimate problem is that we don't have enough laws (very clearly defined) regulating the internet. If someone wants to harass someone online they should have the guts to say who they are, and the person being harassed should be able to obtain their information to defend themselves. In any event, we are lacking some serious laws online. People can disparage others online, post false information or shocking pictures and hide behind anonymity while taking no responsibility for the ultimate outcome to someone's reputation - or in this case emotional distress which led to suicide. We have a long way to go in regulating people's privacy and conduct online, but the Cyberbullying Law is certainly a start.
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Re: Re:
I agree. I'm in favor of suicide, abortion, euthanasia, etc. etc.
Whatever keeps the highways moving and uncongested.
/sarcasm
Me too,
/not sarcasm
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Sorry for the length
1st off I want to say that politicians in general are trash, secondly I cant find the correct ground on this issue, I am all for less government, less oversight, but this young girl (Meghan)was my neighbor, I cant get past this as I have a 12 year old daughter and have listened to how horrible girls in general are to each other at that age, boys tend to forget thank god! I guess I just cant get past a mother taking such extreme measures, IMO i believe Lori was doing much more than looking into what others were saying about her daughter..... She had intent in her heart to rectify what she felt Megan said about her daughter. I too on many occasions have nearly driven to a home to defend my daughter but resisted and tried to help her deal with it. I feel it is our obligation as parents to teacher our children how to effectively deal this issues as children, we cannot and should not jump into their lives at that level......teach, mentor, PARENT!!! I just keep thinking what if NO parents got involved in this, Megan and Lori's daughter may have not liked each, hell they may have even had a fight, but Megan would be alive, & Lori would not have been on trial and sentenced. Kids forget parents hold grudges. Lori's actions should be perfectly legal, abominably poor judgment. I guess Lori has shown she is incapable of guiding her daughter to use good judgment, and I can only presume she too felt no responsibility to display any. So I guess i think she is NOT Guilty but should be put in jail for the rest of her life........
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Re:
What in the sweet hell are you talking about? Do you really believe that we have a problem in American culture defined by a LACK of laws? There is nothing wrong with anonymity, and people do NOT have the right to know who their accuser is online.
The only law that needs to be enacted is the "Tgeigs says stop being a bunch of easily upset emotional vaginas Act of 2009". I can go into further details if you like, but it basically says that just because someone says something you don't like doesn't mean you have to pay any attention to it, regardless of the forum.
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If Megan was your kid, would you still feel ok with what Lori Drew did?
if megan was my daughter she would have been raised from birth to know that anyone online that you haven't met in real life is either a fed, a corporate shill, a stalker, a criminal or a bot.
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The problem is where do you draw the line. You can be considered a troll and should be locked up for two years. It deeply angers me that you are willing to toss out reason and logical thinking to imprison people you DON'T LIKE.
We can't imprison people just because they are assholes and we don't like them.
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thank god... i would be in jail
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only the strong shall survive!
talk about stupid... if you kill yourself over some words on your myspace then the world is better off with you~
thin the heard too many sheeps in this country!
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Which one are you?
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if megan was my daughter she would have been raised from birth to know that anyone online that you haven't met in real life is either a fed, a corporate shill, a stalker, a criminal or a bot.
...or just a garden variety a$$hole...
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easy chucklebutte.....we are talking about 14 year olds.....not adults, their brains are not fully matured yet to make these kind of decisions.
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Why does everyone believe that every bad action should be illegal?
Do you also believe that every legal action is good? No, you fucking don't.
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Re: Laws should not be this subjective
FYI, Intentional Coward, you have are grossly ignorant. The Mormons (and Church in general) did not, nor have not, been involved in your so-called "Prop-8 propaganda hate-crimes." They merely exercised their "First Amendment" rights. You'd better do your homework before you post, ya friggin' idiot.
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A bot.
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If Megan was your kid, would you still feel ok with what Lori Drew did?
Let's try reading again. I said it was terrible what she did, but that doesn't mean she broke the law... and no matter how terrible what she did may have been, twisting an entirely different law around is hugely problematic.
Besides, there's no definite link between Drew (who didn't even write the messages in question!) and Megan's decision to kill herself.
People kill themselves all the time -- and yes, it's quite tragic. But do you really want to lock up anyone who was mean to someone who killed themselves? And do you really want to twist the laws to make that possible?
Making it an emotional argument "what if it was your kid" is really troubling. If it were my kid, I'd be absolutely devastated. But I wouldn't want to send everyone who was mean to my kid to jail.
Do you not see the trouble of charging someone with a crime for the actions of someone else?
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Re: Good luck with that
god, she is a fat triple chin toad!!!!
Megan's father should have payed that cunt Lori a visit and put an end to her/it then and there.
more people should handle their problems the way we do it here in Texas, don't have much use for lawyers and all the BS that goes with them.
it is a terrible terrible shame that Megan thought that she only had one way to deal with any problem, it's horrible when a child dies...and that cunt Lori probably doesn't even give it a second thought.
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wtf?
Does this mean that when I dump my "cyber" boyfriends and break their hearts, I'm going to prison???
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Justice was not done. Lori did not intend to kill Megan. Lori didn't intend anything. She suspected Megan of bullying her own daughter, and constructed a false peer to find out if it was true; when it didn't lead anywhere, she ended the ruse. Lori wasn't even the one who ended the "relationship," her employee did. But Lori is the one who was punished, in court and in the public eye. A girl killed herself for stupid reasons, and a mob lynched the first one they could get their hands on. That is what's sickening.
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stupid politicians
" I had a friend in high school kill himself after his girlfriend dumped him. Should she have been charged with a crime?"
LOL
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Re: wtf?
Yes it does, nor can you reject anyone for the same reason.
Wanna go out sometime? (Answer carefully now) :)
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Re: Re: wtf?
So much for my "cyber dominatrix" business. /sigh
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Re: Re: Re: wtf?
There are times when I would love to sit these politicians down in front of a Network+ exam and just watch their facial expressions as they scan through it.
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"We can't imprison people just because they are assholes and we don't like them."
no but we can beat the bloody hell out of them!!!!
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Have we lost our humanity?
absolutely.
the internet destroyed our humanity years ago.
want proof? browse 4chan.org for ten minutes. the internet isn't safe for decent people. they would be better off doing something... anything... else.
Perhaps the ultimate laws that charged Lori were "twisted", but justice was done in the end.
no, it wasn't. megan is dead because her parents didn't teach her how to protect herself online. internet mob justice would have seen to it that lori drew's life was ruined without any help from the law. and if that failed there is always the great american past time: the civil suit.
using the law in this way is reprehensible, not because it is wrong, but because it is an absolute waste of time and resources. lori drew got busted, and these laws might stop a couple of people in the beginning, but then the real trouble will start.
The ultimate problem is that we don't have enough laws (very clearly defined) regulating the internet. If someone wants to harass someone online they should have the guts to say who they are, and the person being harassed should be able to obtain their information to defend themselves.
no, the ultimate problem is that people are painfully ignorant about just how dangerous the internet is. it's way more dangerous than the real world and it's way harder to protect yourself. no amount of laws will prevent that. idiots like megan's parents need to take some responsibility for themselves and their children.
if someone the sufficient skill and motivation wants you to suffer, you WILL suffer. there is no force on earth that can prevent that. all the law will do produce unintended consequences.
In any event, we are lacking some serious laws online. People can disparage others online, post false information or shocking pictures and hide behind anonymity while taking no responsibility for the ultimate outcome to someone's reputation - or in this case emotional distress which led to suicide.
you have no idea how the internet works or how the people that use it operate, do you? censorship and regulation will always be circumvented. always. so go ahead and endorse a bunch of laws, but they will do you no good.
we passed a bunch of laws against spam, how's that working out for you? all it did was drive the spammers further underground, making it even harder for service providers to fight them. good job congress!
the chinese can't contain the internet and they have the resources and motivation to do so, what makes you think the federal government has any chance of success?
laws against bullying will not work. they will waste taxpayer funds and deliver absolutely no results other than inconveniences to legitimate users, and maybe a re-election.
i guarantee you the only "bullies" caught and punished with this law will be some grandmothers and a couple of 10 year olds who are victims of unintended consequences.
We have a long way to go in regulating people's privacy and conduct online, but the Cyberbullying Law is certainly a start.
regulating anything on the internet is physically impossible. it simply cannot be done.
for every step that you take and every measure that you implement if it doesn't fail on it's own, there WILL be a workaround within minutes. that is a mathematical certainty.
the government can't even protect it's own secrets from the chinese, what on earth makes you think they can protect you or your children from bullies?
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Cyber Bullying my A$$
If your kid is so close to the edge that someone calling them a c*nt, f*g, fat or ugly online is going to push them to suicide, or into pulling another Columbine, no law is going to help them.
I am so sick of this "for the childrens" bullshit.
As a kid, I was tormented verbally and physically. I used to make myself throw up so I didn't have to go to school and face it. But I survived, I didn't kill myself or blow up my school or kill the offenders.
Hell, I've read the First Amendment up and down and nowhere does it say I have to give a crap about your tender little feelings.
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Is the punishment ever going to fit the crime? A local case involved a drunk killing a construction worker in a car wreck. They got 1.5 years. Create a fake profile online and you get 2 years. Fight dogs (ala Michael Vick) you get 3 years. So harassment and dogs are worth more than peoples lives?
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We need to get REAL
There is a large difference between bullying (which has a physical form, is painful and in very extreme circumstances can cause real physical damage to a person) which of course at some point is assault and so needs no "special" laws, and "cyber" (which is a euphemism for NOT REAL) Bullying. While this Drew lady was disgusting and she deserves our contempt, I don’t believe she is too be blamed criminally for the suicide of another (and even if she were, there are already laws that would be applicable with depraved indifference clauses, etc). “Sticks and Stones may break my bones, but words can NEVER hurt me”, is exactly how the law should view this type of incident. To take things that do not cause physical damage to a person and elevate them to the criminality of acts that do, is just illogical and in the end blurs our fundamental divisions of speech and behavior.
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Probably an Over-Reaction
It's very hard to come up with anything to say in Lori Drew's defense. She is undoubtedly a repugnant and vicious person. I also believe that she bears a good share of the responsibility for Megan Meier's death. Her conviction may have been legally questionable, but it really didn't punish her enough as far as I'm concerned.
HOWEVER: This law is as ill-conceived as the majority of the "cyber" laws that come out in reaction to various over-blown incidents. It's over-broad and would almost certainly have a chilling effect on free speech.
The really stupid thing is this: Why the hell is there any need for a law that forbids this kind of behaviour >online
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Re: Laws should not be this subjective
Also, you suck at trolling.
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People kill themselves all the time -- and yes, it's quite tragic.
For those who discuss "feelings" get ready to get pissed with my reply.
Because, I don't see this as tragic. If anything, I wish more people would take this approach.
Why? I guess many of you haven't been surrounded by this type of person. I'm not talking about those who seek help and turn their lives around.
I'm talking about people like Megan, who obviously didn't care to apply herself despite the help offered.
And while my statement may seem mean, I dare a single one of you to try and convince me you can change the mind of someone who isn't going to listen.
Hell, the comments on this very site should be clear enough proof for you.
She's gone. Boo freaking hoo. Life moves on to those who do want help to change their lives, and can be evident by seeing them in counseling rather than looking for "help" on an online website.
Good riddance, Megan. Thanks to you, you're causing more problems for the rest of us.
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what she did was wrong but not a crime it more of a case for the civil court. Sue her for a couple million and she will be in just as bad if not worse shap them if she'd gone to jail.
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Which, incidentally, would get YOU thrown in jail. Keep going. We don't fear the lynch mob like we used to.
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If it will make Weird Harold and Angry Dude eligible of prison butt-rape I might have to through my principles in the trash and support the bill.
prison rape is no laughing matter.
unless it happens to a clown. then it's hilarious.
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a criminal of course.
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I'm tired of how pussy this entire cuntry is becoming.. (see what I did there haha)
Forum troll is pleased.
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Solution
Put Rep. Linda Sanchez in jail
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Re: Re:
Than how come all the other 14 year olds don't kill themselves? Let's be serious, she was a weakling that didin't deserved to survive.
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The more humans that kill themselves the better the Earth will be!
EVERYONE KILL YOURSELF IN THE NAME OF THE EARTH
/ NOT SARCASTIC
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My boss makes me want to kill myself. Can I have him put away?
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Re: Re: Good luck with that
Yeah it would be much better if we all just killed each other over our disagreements. If only we could all live in Texas.
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And while my statement may seem mean...
Beyond that, it seems to make a lot of claims about which you know nothing. Unless you knew Meghan personally, that is.
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Re:
Correct, but harassment plus a human death is worth slightly more than dog fights. Make sense now?
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Politicians make me puke
I am so sick of politics and politicians posturing here on the net. I am particularly disgusted with the clowns in Congress pushing out bill after bill as if they actually had a clue. A single incident does not constitute drastic blanket change. And, corrupt DA's should be disbarred then sent to Vlad the Impaler. Gawd., how I long for the old days of Nukes & Blue Screens of Death when one needed more intelligence then just enough to push an ON button to get here.
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damn what a bunch of idiots here, meant to be a place for people to ask questions and talk about that shit but as soon as you do all these fagot irc trolls talk shit
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Cyberbullying... Get a Life
Yes, I am for laws regarding cyberbullying. I myself have been a victim for the past 3 years. I have had my identity stolen, my computer hacked, my emails monitored and jobs were LOST because of this person. I have tried on several attempts to alert someone and they dismissed it but now, that there is a name for this crime something should be done against these people. I have a person that I suspect but I do not know him by name only by the company that he works for and I have contacted them and the company informed me that they are investigating the problem.
This person is a technical "GENIUS" and is able to tape into my home appliances, my car radio, and he has followed me to all of the jobs that I have over the last 3 years. He has obtained my email address and he has sent out photos of me to my employers. I have been to questioned by me employers regarding my after 5 activies and why I could not get to work on time. He is on this computer right now. And if this message does not get to you I will know why.
And to those of you that have stated this is NOT a crime. You have not been a victim of this such childish schoolyard behaviour. The person or person(s) doing this should themselves go through it. What one sees as innocent fun others see has not so funny and it does hurt and harm. Megan killed herself. And she was only a child of 13. And a grown person with children of their own should not be going aroung bullying someone. Group yourself. As in the words of the song by Michael Jackson "THE MAN IN THE MIRROR" Check yourself first, before you (1) sign on the a computer, (2) script some negative words and (3)press send. As and adult you had 3 opportunities to say NO, I am not going to do this what if someone did this to my child.
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hmm
Well what is a troll? It's just an internet slang, like Jew is for Nazi's and Nigger is for the KKK.
Sometimes I troll, I admit it.
But a lot of times I get banned even when I'm not really trolling.
this would be a stupid law because you're going to fill up the prisons with a lot of people who did nothing more than offend some stuck up prick on the internet.
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Billusa2000,sordidguy, & bluefish6 are preadtors & trolls on aol posts beware:
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MEH THEN YOU SUFFER FROM MENTAL ILLNESS . ANYONE WHO TROLLS ON THE NET TROLLS MORE THEN LITTLE. EACH PERSON WHO TROLLS SUFFERS FROM AN ILLNESS.
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I READ MY STUFF & DONE STUDIES. THEY ARE BELIEVED KIDS/ADULTS WHO TROLL SUFFER FROM SOME ILLNESS.
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sordidguy some idiot/man/adult on aol is following me & other users on posts and sites under different accounts making threats & calling people names etc. I did report him for stalking in his mind he thinks he's not stalking even though he follows people on blogs under different accounts pretending to be a woman then a man. What the he** is wrong with this guy? He even makes fun of gays on boards. He is a lowlife piece of shi* in my book. And in need of mental help looks like. He laughed when people reported him he thinks he can't be found. He has aol. I am done with him. Cause he can't take a hint of when to stop or anything. This guy is physco and mean. How can he post rants at people he don't know & Post hate crimes on sites . If he's against gays he needs to keep it to himself. Do us a favor sord guy go away your like a bad dream that can't go away you troll. And I know for a fact you are adult such a sad/sick person as well. I also found he has 2 or 3 friends on youtube he says how I don't have friends i'm low life yeah buddy I have more friends then you. This man must be dumb or a mental case.
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If you are dealing with people like this report them to the authorities they won't stop . They will stop when they know that it is the law and they can be tracked down and arrested. Threats etc. does no good more charges against them. Trolls are not the smarest people sorry after 7 or 8 months of dealing with a loon going on different accounts following me & other users and making fun of people I figured he was not to bright. And we had enough of his crap making fun of people of race, gay or not gay, height what they look like, kids, etc....
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Lock there coward/loon behinds up. They'll quit that & learn a hard lesson. The internet is made to talk look up stuff even play games oh not now days way to many trolls . People who have no life in other words. Adults should know better and right from wrong or was this woman's brain not fully there & still is not? Kids I can understand but report them then they can get banned off certain sites.Kids brains and not fully developed still parents need to tell them it's wrong. If the parents are in on it then the family needs mental help.
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nerd
Yeah um..... Calling people names is not trolling/bullying? Before you call people trolls & names may wanna look at your comment/comments as well. That's just horrible to call people any name. If you don't know what it really means then don't use it online. You know nothing about people online. Trolls also will say stuff like you posted. So watch what you type. I know some comments maybe and are hateful those people are have no life or heart then just ignore those types they just show all people online they have no respect for themself if they did they would show respect for the teen girl who killed herself over this.
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by Anonymous Coward
The more humans that kill themselves the better the Earth will be!
EVERYONE KILL YOURSELF IN THE NAME OF THE EARTH
/ NOT SARCASTIC
Your comments..... You should be proud of yourself for such foolish/downright disgusting comments on here. How old are you 12? You should know better.If people looked you up & found out who you were you could be reported. I find your comments to be sick.
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Net trolls are cowards & plain stupid with nothing else better to do with there life or time. How about waking up & facing reality for a change. Act normal. If you can't then there is help for nuts out there.
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cracked.com iden theft and troll place. There are dumbass people on that site. I contatced the fbi because of the stalking, iden theft & preadtors on the site. It's scary.
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Stop playing victims. No one believes you trolls expect a few stupid people like you . Trolls have rage ! And are immature. It makes you wonder why adults go so far to troll? How immature & crazy ! I read studies on trolls there all nuts & cowards in real-life .Just ignore & report. Because they are hidden behinf a computer they think they can't be traced. They can. Most don't live in reality. And also there more of a little bitch when there computers are taken away !
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