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stories filed under: "john stottlemire"
Legal Issues

Legal Issues

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
copyright, coupons, dmca, john stottlemire

Companies:
coupons.com



Coupons.com DMCA Fight Over... Again

from the nobody-wins? dept

We'd been covering the Coupons.com DMCA legal saga for a few years now, and we thought it had ended back in November, when Coupons.com dropped its case against John Stottlemire. If you don't recall, Stottlemire was sued because he'd realized that if you deleted a few files on your hard drive, you could reprint coupons issued via Coupons.com's software. The company claimed this was a DMCA anti-circumvention violation -- though it seemed odd to claim that simply telling people to delete some files eliminated any sort of copy protection. Also there were significant questions as to whether or not what Coupons.com was doing was actually copy protection. Stottlemire was doing a pretty good job (as an individual) fighting back, and the company finally dropped the case.

But... apparently after Stottlemire bragged that he "kicked [Coupons.com's] ass," the company tried to reopen the case, claiming that Stottlemire had breached the non-disclosure agreement on the settlement and claiming that they need to reopen the case to "set the record straight." It's difficult to see how claiming you "kicked their ass" breaches any disclosure agreements, since it's hardly giving away much of anything. And, it appears, a judge has agreed, denying the request to reopen the case. The judge did say that Stottlemire's statement was a breach, but hardly an egregious one, and certainly not a big enough deal to reopen the case.

14 Comments | Leave a Comment..

 
Legal Issues

Legal Issues

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
copy protection, coupons, dmca, john stottlemire

Companies:
coupons.com



Coupons.com Drops DMCA Case Against Guy Who Told People To Delete Files On Their Hard Drive

from the legal-issues-left-unsettled dept

We've been covering the DMCA lawsuit filed by Coupons.com against a guy, John Stottlemire, who figured out that if you delete a few files on your hard drive you could make extra copies of the coupon. Coupons.com tried to greatly stretch the DMCA to claim that this was circumventing copy protection -- but simply telling people to delete files on a hard drive hardly seems to be an circumvention tool. Plus, there were some legal issues over whether or not what Coupons.com was doing was really "copy protection." In many cases, Coupons.com's arguments seemed to contradict itself, though Stottlemire (who defended himself) was quick to point that out to the court.

It looks like Coupons.com recognized that this lawsuit was going to end badly, and has now agreed to dismiss the case. This is a big win for Stottlemire, though it's unfortunate that there was no legal ruling on this attempt to stretch the meaning of the DMCA's anti-circumvention clause. It will, undoubtedly, come up again in the future in other lawsuits.

5 Comments | Leave a Comment..

 
Legal Issues

Legal Issues

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
copy protection, coupons, dmca, john stottlemire

Companies:
coupons.com



To Make Its Case, Coupons.com Says It Blocks Users When It Doesn't

from the let's-get-this-straight dept

We recently noted the somewhat mixed ruling in the Coupons.com lawsuit over whether or not it's a DMCA violation to merely tell people to delete some files from their hard drive. The ruling noted that Coupons.com was trying to make a rather questionable argument. It's a bit technical, and it required multiple readings to really understand what's going on here, but effectively, Coupons.com is trying to invoke the DMCA's anti-circumvention clause to punish a programmer who figured out how to get around the limits enforced by Coupons.com's software, which lets users use a coupon a limited number of times. The real issue in this case is whether the software is about preventing uses or copies. If it's uses, then it's not covered by the DMCA. If it's copies, then it is. The court noted that it certainly seems like the software is focused on uses rather than copies, as there's no actual part of the software that blocks you from accessing the coupons as much as you want. It just blocks you from using them.

The programmer, John Stottlemire, who is being sued in this case, writes in to let us know that Coupons.com has just described its system in a misleading way in order to convince the court that its software really is copy protection rather than use protection, claiming: "The features block an individual computer's access to a particular coupon offer altogether if that computer does not have the proper registry keys in place." In other words, there is copy protection that blocks access if the registry keys are missing.

That claim may sound a lot like copy protection, but that's not actually how their system works. Coupons.com doesn't block access to its coupons based on a registry key -- because if you don't have a registry key, Coupons.com simply issues you new one. And that's not how copy protection usually works; that's how usage protection works. If the system worked the way it was described to the court, then first-time users, who would not have the proper registry keys, should not be able to use Coupons.com because they would be blocked from accessing coupons. But Coupons.com doesn't do that to new users -- all users without registry keys are simply given new keys (and not blocked whatsoever).

Basically, Coupons.com appears to be pretending that its software doesn't work without a certain registry key in order to convince the judge that its software actually qualifies under the DMCA as copy protection. But, if it were copy protection, then Stottlemire's programs (or written instructions) for how to defeat the software by deleting the registry key wouldn't work. All Stottlemire's method of "circumvention" would do is trigger the copy protection to deny access. So, either Coupons.com is lying to the judge, or Stottlemire's program and instructions couldn't have done what they claim it did (in which case he wouldn't have broken the law). So... basically, it sounds like Coupons.com is either lying or they have no case. And, if they're lying, they don't have much of a case either.

34 Comments | Leave a Comment..

 
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