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Legal Issues

Legal Issues

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
bloggers, india, libel, platform, safe harbors, user

Companies:
google



Why Is It So Difficult To Understand The Difference Between A Platform And A User?

from the head-scratcher dept

In the US, thanks to safe harbor rules in the DMCA and the CDA, courts will often toss out misdirected lawsuits that go after a service provider for the actions of a user. To be honest, I've always questioned why we need such safe harbors in the first place, since it should just be basic common sense that a service provider shouldn't be liable for the actions of a user. But, of course, common sense just isn't that common. This can be seen, first, in all the lawsuits that require incantations of the safe harbors to get them tossed out, but even worse, in foreign countries that have no such safe harbor laws. Take for example, a case in India, where Google India is being blamed for content written by bloggers on Blogger. First, Blogger is run by Google, not Google India, so the lawsuit is doubly misdirected -- but, more importantly, Google itself cannot be responsible for what someone writes using its tool. That's like suggesting that Bic is responsible for what you write with its pens. The case involves a guy who was upset about what some bloggers wrote about him -- so of course, he had to sue Google. What's amazing is that the judge seems to have initially bought this as reasonable. It barred Google from hosting any blog that "defamed" this guy. Google has responded by trying to explain the basics of the internet to the judge and how it's impossible for Google to figure out if someone is defaming someone else using its software.

15 Comments | Leave a Comment..

 
Legal Issues

Legal Issues

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
advertisements, platform, service provider, trademark, user

Companies:
craigslist, google



Forget Suing Google, Now It's Craigslist That's A Target For Misplaced Lawsuit

from the no-surprise-really dept

It's been quite common for companies to sue Google when a competitor puts up an ad that references their own trademarks. This is misguided in any number of ways: first, as long as the ad itself is not confusing such that the reader (or a moron in a hurry reader) would think that the ad is from the original company rather than the competitor, there's not likely to be a trademark violation. More importantly, even if there is a trademark violation, it should not be Google's liability, since they're simply the service provider. The liability (if there is any) would be on whoever created the ad. Mostly, the courts have gotten this right -- though, sometimes they've gotten confused. Either way, those lawsuits keep getting filed.

And now, it appears, they're spreading. Dave Barnes alerts us to the news that a similar lawsuit has been filed against Craigslist. The lawsuit was originally filed in a Texas state court, but has been transferred to a federal court -- but not before the state court banned Craigslist from posting any more ads with those trademarked words. Considering that Craigslist does not pre-screen posts to its site, it's not at all clear how that's even possible. And, considering that trademarks only cover use in commerce in a specific context, it would be way too onerous to insist that Craigslist could not allow the phrases "Call First," "First Call Properties," or "Call Us First," in any context whatsoever.

Hopefully, the federal court is quick to dismiss Craigslist from the suit. Unfortunately, since trademark claims don't have a section 230 or DMCA safe harbor, it may be a little more involved than some other cases. But common sense, once again, dictates that Craigslist should not be the liable party here and should not be responsible for policing the text of posts. To make the claim even more ridiculous, since Craigslist doesn't charge for the ads in question, it's difficult to see how Craigslist could be found to have been using these words "in commerce." The lawsuit also alleges libel against Craigslist -- which should get thrown out quite quickly under section 230. It's too bad that the trademark claim might be a bit more involved.

6 Comments | Leave a Comment..

 
Legal Issues

Legal Issues

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
counterfeiting, france, liability. platform, safe harbors, user

Companies:
ebay



eBay Has To Pay $63m Because A French Court Doesn't Know A Platform From A User

from the bad-ruling dept

A few weeks ago, we pointed out that a French court had made a very bad ruling, blaming eBay for actions of its users. The case involved the sale of counterfeit goods from LVMH. Rather than recognizing that eBay is just a platform and has no way of knowing whether products put up for sale by its users are legit or counterfeit, the court somehow ruled that eBay should know. Now the court has ruled on the fine, making eBay pay up $63 million for this exceptionally bad ruling. If you provide any sort of platform, a ruling like this should make you very, very afraid of doing any business in France. You can now be blamed and fined for the actions of your users. Update: As pointed out in the comments, this ruling is even more ridiculous than it at first appears. Apparently, eBay is even responsible for people selling legit versions of some products, because LVMH claims that no one is allowed to resell those goods without a reseller agreement.

73 Comments | Leave a Comment..

 
Legal Issues

Legal Issues

by Mike Masnick


Filed Under:
counterfeiting, france, liability. platform, safe harbors, user

Companies:
ebay



French Courts Still Very Confused About The Difference Between A Platform And A User

from the blaming-the-wrong-party dept

For all the complaints that some have about the various safe harbors found in US law to protect service providers from the actions of their users, it's important to note the sort of ridiculous results that occur without such safe harbors. And, for that, you have to look no further than France, which not only doesn't appear to have similar safe harbor laws in place, but whose courts seem to consistently take the position that service providers absolutely are responsible for the actions of their users. We've seen this in the ongoing rulings against Google, which has finally been appealed out of France to the wider European courts. And, then there are the absolutely ridiculous results, such as that time when a French court declared Yahoo and its CEO at the time war criminals, because a user sold some Nazi memorabilia on Yahoo's auction site.

The latest isn't quite as extreme, but is no less ridiculous. A French court has declared that eBay is a counterfeiter because counterfeit goods were sold on eBay. Note that the court didn't blame the actual seller, but the platform provider eBay. The lawyer for the company suing claims that eBay is much more than a platform because it has tools that help sellers sell better. That seems like a huge stretch, but apparently the court bought it. Making eBay liable for any auction held on the site in France is likely to seriously stifle the use of eBay in the country. It now not only will need to review auctions, but somehow do so without any way of actually knowing if a product is legit or counterfeit. How could eBay possibly know this? It can't -- which means it will probably have to do something like ban a tremendous number of auctions. How that can possibly be a good thing for anyone in France is beyond me.

19 Comments | Leave a Comment..

 
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