But when you insist on repeating them over and over again, it's better to call them what they are and move on.
Or you could try and find out why they can't see your point and debunk that.
To bad I have not much better to add to this conversation, but I also must say I agree with this a bit.
It seems like Mike can't admit a fault. When somebody make a right, or not so right, point a lot of times he starts to act overly defensive. Or starting to call people idiotic.
Some times you really see people try to understand, of let them make their point and that can be said it that they are an idiot.
If you have followed me you will know my standpoint, so that is not it. You don't call people idiotic, at least try to explain them what should be idiotic. Avoid the word, if they were an idiot they wouldn't even be able to post.
Hey,
Just a question, could you next time also sign your text with something. So that I can at least which posts are made by you.
Maybe unlike some of the others I check back after a few days on topic that are in my interest.
Thanks. ^^ Hope to see you around or even recognize a name. =)
It's just that there isn't any proof that your rights end. =)
Actually quite to opposite, look at my latest post. We have a lower amount of teen pregnancy, drug users because we are open about it. Not because we remove a word while everyone knows what it said.
Because we all know that because cursing & tits on TV are bad for society...
That must be the reason why we in the Netherlands have one of the lowest teen pregnancy's in the world and even at 12:00 it's totally normal to see an ass on TV, while the U.S. has one of the highest. We are open about our sexuality, even on TV. Marijuana is allowed, and talked about on tv, still the percentage of drug users is lower.
Yes it actually is! Come to the Netherlands and watch it. We openly talk about sex. Censorship won't help shit, it will only make things worse. This is just what I wanted to say.
Example of a certain Dutch TV-show on public TV. 'Spuiten en Slikken' ,means as much as 'inject/squirt and swallow', it's about sex & drugs.
Video of last episode (legal): http://player.omroep.nl/?aflID=9388826
Just had to say this about censorship, if I watch TV from other country's that is one of the things I hate.
I didn't see this comment before I posted comment #167 but still I would like to comment:
I am glad you see it this way, although we may not agree on the last part. /But take their works without paying the asking price? That's still wrong./ It is where I see nothing wrong with that. Nobody has been damaged. I could also choose not to enjoy it, but I find that still to hard.
Nobody has been damaged. I see nothing bad with that. :)
Glad you at least see the rest this way now. :) Mike's presentation there is also way more clear than all these comment. Or even most of his other post. :)
That one and the one that explains the difference between Infinite&Scarce goods made the most clear with me. And made me 'see' there is nothing bad with what I do. Although Mike doesn't have the same opinion on that.
How do your reasoning apply to software?
Software is there to provide a 'solution' if you can easily copy that you should be able to. The creation isn't a scarce good, maybe find ways to charge for that.
It also possible to charge for deploying and maintaining that solution. All things people would pay for. Find other ways, try to be innovative.
It is not up to you to decide what you think the artist deserves. If someone wants to put a price on THEIR creation, it is up to you to either support it or not.They think they put a price on the creation while they actually put a price on the distribution. If I can find somebody that does the exact same thing at no cost, shouldn't I be allowed to take it?
The music is already created and the distribution comes at no cost, why shouldn't I do it?
I think that it could play a part in it, but mostly I just think the reason people keep using piracy to get their product is the simple 'Ease of Use' argument.
It so damn easy. No payment, no walking out the door, just *Click & Download.*
Unless there is secret unknown way to do this way more energy effecient: No.
I don't want to contribute to all that waste, cars are bad enough as it is. Why go of the ground? Isn't that waste? 3dimensions might be nice, but think of ALL the energy and efficiency it cost. What is even better about a flying car ride?
Is there anything I would even want, expect 'it's great.' I can get from point AtoB isn't flying only better because it is 'cool'?
p.s. don't you read Mike comments: Indeed. Which is why he's giving away a digitized version of the book.
It isn't a sample so it's exactly the way you said he should. =)
Publishing a book and getting it distributed and wasting all those trees and not being able to keep it updates seems like a waste.It certainly is. Only when people want to read something they want to be able to take it to bed, have something in their hands or simply something to collect. It might be a waste, but it also is a scarce good.
The information is infinite so that will be free to download. No not a sample, the whole bunch. Samples are shit, you always want more but you can't get it. Also people won't be enthusiastic about samples so they won't spread the book for you, you won't get any advertisement.
A CD can be a upsell and book can be too. Only just a sample won't do it. :) Why advertise when you can let your fans do that for you? You still have things to sell, or they could hire some of your other scarce goods. :)
For me, it seems that there is a little bit of "do as I say, not do as I do" at work here.Chris might better give out his whole book non-copyrighted, not just a sample or you are right.
Also, you make it sound like Mike is justifying piracy; he's not.I am though. :)Nobody gets hurt, nothing is lost and all I do is promote the thing I wanted, help to get more people interested in it. If it wasn't for piracy I would never had discovered the 'scene' I am in right now. If it weren't for piracy I weren't ever so obsessed with it and the scene might be almost dead, it would never have gotten my concert tickets.
There is one thing you can easily find; 'short sighted, get away & pretend it is not there' view of mind and that also happens to be the one thing I hate. If it weren't for piracy I wouldn't have ever spent any money on things I liked. Now: I am 19 and I listen to music from every era, I listen to every genre, and only pop is what I hate. I won more vinyl&CD's than my dad ever had, I just recently bought a CD, I have a bulletin board full of concert tickets.
And without piracy there wouldn't be any of that. I would have just hated music all around. No I am not like the most, the most do as I hate. They go with the crowd.
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Twitter
Re: (as Jan Hopmans)
I don't buy. So I copy. :)
Re: (as Jan Hopmans)
True "top fans" should be in a class of their own, perhaps something like double or even triple the average.
Why?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yeah, that's about right. (as Jan Hopmans)
" Explain to me what is bad about their business model now that wasn't bad 10 years ago."
You can now very easily copy or distribute music.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: (as Jan Hopmans)
But when you insist on repeating them over and over again, it's better to call them what they are and move on.
Or you could try and find out why they can't see your point and debunk that.
Re: Re: Re: Re: (as Jan Hopmans)
To bad I have not much better to add to this conversation, but I also must say I agree with this a bit.
It seems like Mike can't admit a fault. When somebody make a right, or not so right, point a lot of times he starts to act overly defensive. Or starting to call people idiotic.
Some times you really see people try to understand, of let them make their point and that can be said it that they are an idiot.
If you have followed me you will know my standpoint, so that is not it. You don't call people idiotic, at least try to explain them what should be idiotic. Avoid the word, if they were an idiot they wouldn't even be able to post.
Re: Hey (as Jan Hopmans)
Hey,
Just a question, could you next time also sign your text with something. So that I can at least which posts are made by you.
Maybe unlike some of the others I check back after a few days on topic that are in my interest.
Thanks. ^^ Hope to see you around or even recognize a name. =)
Greetings, Jan.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: curse words (as Jan Hopmans)
It's just that there isn't any proof that your rights end. =)
Actually quite to opposite, look at my latest post. We have a lower amount of teen pregnancy, drug users because we are open about it. Not because we remove a word while everyone knows what it said.
(as Jan Hopmans)
Because we all know that because cursing & tits on TV are bad for society...
That must be the reason why we in the Netherlands have one of the lowest teen pregnancy's in the world and even at 12:00 it's totally normal to see an ass on TV, while the U.S. has one of the highest. We are open about our sexuality, even on TV. Marijuana is allowed, and talked about on tv, still the percentage of drug users is lower.
Yes it actually is! Come to the Netherlands and watch it. We openly talk about sex. Censorship won't help shit, it will only make things worse. This is just what I wanted to say.
Example of a certain Dutch TV-show on public TV. 'Spuiten en Slikken' ,means as much as 'inject/squirt and swallow', it's about sex & drugs.
Video of last episode (legal): http://player.omroep.nl/?aflID=9388826
Just had to say this about censorship, if I watch TV from other country's that is one of the things I hate.
Re: (as Jan Hopmans)
Different Time Zone?
Re: Re: Re: What's with the Morals? (as Jan Hopmans)
Flaming won't help you.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What should the new business model *be*? (as Jan Hopmans)
I didn't see this comment before I posted comment #167 but still I would like to comment:
I am glad you see it this way, although we may not agree on the last part. /But take their works without paying the asking price? That's still wrong./ It is where I see nothing wrong with that. Nobody has been damaged. I could also choose not to enjoy it, but I find that still to hard.
Nobody has been damaged. I see nothing bad with that. :)
Glad you at least see the rest this way now. :) Mike's presentation there is also way more clear than all these comment. Or even most of his other post. :)
That one and the one that explains the difference between Infinite&Scarce goods made the most clear with me. And made me 'see' there is nothing bad with what I do. Although Mike doesn't have the same opinion on that.
Re: Re: Re: @ a few confused individuals ;) (as Jan Hopmans)
How do your reasoning apply to software?
Software is there to provide a 'solution' if you can easily copy that you should be able to. The creation isn't a scarce good, maybe find ways to charge for that.
It also possible to charge for deploying and maintaining that solution. All things people would pay for. Find other ways, try to be innovative.
Also as Joe already stated: Price != Value.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What should the new business model *be*? (as Jan Hopmans)
No way, they can't be wrong!! O_o
How could they not have lost at least 100x more than I have ever earned in my life ALL together. It can't be. O_o
Re: Re: Wrong approach (as Jan Hopmans)
It is not up to you to decide what you think the artist deserves. If someone wants to put a price on THEIR creation, it is up to you to either support it or not.They think they put a price on the creation while they actually put a price on the distribution. If I can find somebody that does the exact same thing at no cost, shouldn't I be allowed to take it?
The music is already created and the distribution comes at no cost, why shouldn't I do it?
Re: (as Jan Hopmans)
I think that it could play a part in it, but mostly I just think the reason people keep using piracy to get their product is the simple 'Ease of Use' argument.
It so damn easy. No payment, no walking out the door, just *Click & Download.*
(as Jan Hopmans)
It isn't even practical... =S All I can think of is unpractical and energy waste.
(as Jan Hopmans)
Unless there is secret unknown way to do this way more energy effecient: No.
I don't want to contribute to all that waste, cars are bad enough as it is. Why go of the ground? Isn't that waste? 3dimensions might be nice, but think of ALL the energy and efficiency it cost. What is even better about a flying car ride?
Is there anything I would even want, expect 'it's great.' I can get from point AtoB isn't flying only better because it is 'cool'?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: (as Jan Hopmans)
p.s. don't you read Mike comments: Indeed. Which is why he's giving away a digitized version of the book.
It isn't a sample so it's exactly the way you said he should. =)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: (as Jan Hopmans)
Publishing a book and getting it distributed and wasting all those trees and not being able to keep it updates seems like a waste.It certainly is. Only when people want to read something they want to be able to take it to bed, have something in their hands or simply something to collect. It might be a waste, but it also is a scarce good.
The information is infinite so that will be free to download. No not a sample, the whole bunch. Samples are shit, you always want more but you can't get it. Also people won't be enthusiastic about samples so they won't spread the book for you, you won't get any advertisement.
A CD can be a upsell and book can be too. Only just a sample won't do it. :) Why advertise when you can let your fans do that for you? You still have things to sell, or they could hire some of your other scarce goods. :)
For me, it seems that there is a little bit of "do as I say, not do as I do" at work here.Chris might better give out his whole book non-copyrighted, not just a sample or you are right.
Re: Re: (as Jan Hopmans)
Also, you make it sound like Mike is justifying piracy; he's not.I am though. :)Nobody gets hurt, nothing is lost and all I do is promote the thing I wanted, help to get more people interested in it. If it wasn't for piracy I would never had discovered the 'scene' I am in right now. If it weren't for piracy I weren't ever so obsessed with it and the scene might be almost dead, it would never have gotten my concert tickets.
There is one thing you can easily find; 'short sighted, get away & pretend it is not there' view of mind and that also happens to be the one thing I hate. If it weren't for piracy I wouldn't have ever spent any money on things I liked. Now: I am 19 and I listen to music from every era, I listen to every genre, and only pop is what I hate. I won more vinyl&CD's than my dad ever had, I just recently bought a CD, I have a bulletin board full of concert tickets.
And without piracy there wouldn't be any of that. I would have just hated music all around. No I am not like the most, the most do as I hate. They go with the crowd.